LANDER -- At least three wolves were killed by Wyoming residents over the weekend, after the animal was removed from the federal endangered species list.
Large numbers of hunters reportedly prowled the state’s newly designated wolf predator area in Sublette County Friday, Saturday and Sunday, locals and outfitters said.
At least two wolves were killed near an elk feedground in the Pinedale area, according to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. Another was killed, also in Sublette County, by a rancher, a local predator board member said.
The Star-Tribune received reports that a fourth wolf was possibly taken, also in Sublette County, but that kill has not yet been confirmed.
All three of the confirmed wolf kills happened in the Cowboy State’s newly designated predator zone for wolves, where the animals can be shot on sight without limits, as long as the time, location and sex of each kill is reported to the Game and Fish Department within 10 days.
Wolves were removed from protection under the federal Endangered Species Act on Friday, at which point the state of Wyoming took over management of the animals inside its borders.
Wolves in the state’s extreme northwest corner are now in the animal’s trophy game zone, and are still afforded some protection. Wolves in the rest of the state are considered predators, similar to coyotes.
Eric Keszler, spokesman for the Game and Fish Department, said the two wolf kills reported so far both happened Friday, about one to two miles west of the Jewett feedground outside of Pinedale. Both were gray-black, one male and one female.
One of the two near the feedground was wearing a tracking collar, said Scott Talbott, the Game and Fish official overseeing the state’s new wolf management program.
One rancher outside the trophy game zone killed a wolf Friday on his private property, said Cat Urbigkit, a member of the Sublette County Predator Board.
The rancher, who wanted to remain anonymous, was having problems with a wolf harassing his livestock, Urbigkit said. The predator board sent USDA Wildlife Services to assist the rancher, but he was able to kill the wolf on his own, she said.
Urbigkit, along with other locals, said there were a lot of hunters out over the weekend in Sublette County looking for wolves. Most of the 30 to 35 wolves outside the trophy game zone live in Sublette County.
“There has been a lot of excitement and interest for hunters in Sublette County,” Urbigkit said. “The predator board has nothing to do with that, but if the hunters are successful in their efforts, then hopefully the predator boards will not be called in on conflicts.”
The Sublette County Predator Board will not hunt wolves, she said, and will only respond when there is a conflict with livestock.
Terry Pollard, co-owner of Bald Mountain Outfitters, said he, too, knows many locals who went out wolf hunting over the weekend. He said most of them came back empty-handed.
“I think they’re finding just what we figured,” Pollard said. “These wolves are an extremely tough animal to hunt. There was a significant amount of hunters out this weekend, and very few of them were taken.”
The problem, however, is that many more wolves might have been killed and authorities don’t know about it yet, said Mike Leahy, the Rocky Mountain regional director of Washington, D.C.-based Defenders of Wildlife.
Because the predator area requirements allow people to wait 10 days before reporting wolf kills, the authorities who most need to know about the impact of the new wolf rules will be largely in the dark for days or even weeks, Leahy said.
“In a shoot-on-sight zone, a large number of the wolves could be killed before Wyoming Game and Fish or the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service even knows about it,” Leahy said. “There could be big impacts to the wolf population that go underreported until it’s too late.”
Defenders of Wildlife is part of a coalition of 11 conservation groups that has notified the federal government about its intent to sue over the wolf delisting rule once the requisite 60-day waiting period is up at the end of April.
There are provisions built into the Endangered Species Act that theoretically allow citizens to seek an emergency injunction against a federal delisting decision, should sufficient need arise.
“It is too early to tell, but certainly if this number of wolves was killed in the first weekend, and this pace keeps up, we would certainly consider the emergency provisions,” Leahy said.
Environment reporter Chris Merrill can be reached at {M3chris.merrill@trib.com or 307-267-6722.
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Comments to this story.
Ricardo wrote on Apr 1, 2008 6:44 AM:
Rick wrote on Apr 1, 2008 9:06 AM:
GaryD wrote on Apr 1, 2008 9:18 AM:
GETERDONE "
renae wrote on Apr 1, 2008 9:40 AM:
michael wrote on Apr 1, 2008 10:16 AM:
The predator area management for wolves--like the killing of Yellowstone bison, and below-cost public land grazing leases--is just one more public subsidy for ranchers who can't make their business work with federal handouts. What ever happened to hiring cowboys to ride with your herd and protect it from wolves? "
Snakeman wrote on Apr 1, 2008 10:32 AM:
michael wrote on Apr 1, 2008 10:37 AM:
And another, this wolf killing is just that--killing. It's NOT hunting, so the Trib shouldn't refer to it as such. Hunters buy licenses that contibute toward the funding of wildlife and habitat conservation. This is just plain ol killing. "
citygirl wrote on Apr 1, 2008 11:13 AM:
Disgusted wrote on Apr 1, 2008 11:17 AM:
Hmmmmm wrote on Apr 1, 2008 11:22 AM:
Snakeman the term red neck originated at the end of the civil war in the south. Many of the newley emancipated slaves and poor white working class became share croppers. Being in the sun all day their necks became red from exposure to the sun. These were hard working people many faced discriminatory practices. Perhaps you should consider taking your sheet off and putting it back on the bed as bigotry and sterio typing has no place in society other than to damage it. "
EcoRover wrote on Apr 1, 2008 11:32 AM:
Wolves are very good at eliminating sick elk from the herd.
And Wyoming ranchers do nothing but b-tch b-tch b-tch about there being "too many elk."
I agree with Rick that the fair thing to do is begin shooting cattle on public land.
http://ecorover.blogspot.com "
M Bo wrote on Apr 1, 2008 11:56 AM:
devin wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:00 PM:
Greg wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:03 PM:
Michael, killing is a very important element of hunting, and although consumption is not usually associated with killing wolfes, there is a very difficult process of hunting these animals before you can kill them.
When everyone agreed in the beginning of this re-introdution to keep the wolves limited to a certain amount of packs, what did you think would happen when they reproduced to above that number? "
Darlene wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:53 PM:
Hmmm... wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:55 PM:
Lamp Lighter wrote on Apr 1, 2008 1:39 PM:
Maryann wrote on Apr 1, 2008 2:47 PM:
Rick, I hope you aren't suggesting one wolf, one cow! Have patience, let the courts handle it. They will. "
jb wrote on Apr 1, 2008 2:48 PM:
This is a travesty; we (federal tax payers) spent a lot of money to put wolves back in the West, now we're treating them like vermin, allowing them to be extinguished for no other reason than welfare ranchers don't like them.
"
barnun wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:11 PM:
SanFrancisco is a nice place for anti hunters. "
Top Cat wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:20 PM:
The Canadian Gray a much more agressive predator than the timber wolf that used to inhabit the region. As evidence of this mistake, once thriving native wildlife herds in the re-introduction areas are down by over 80%, and some areas are entirely barren.
Beyond hunting for subsistence, the Grey is known to kill for the "joy" of killing, and slaughter wild game and domestic animals on a scale that not even the most depraved human would, leaving the carcasses uneaten...no...not even a Redneck would do that.
A pair of Greys have been witnessed slaughtering 63 domestic animals in a single night, apparently in a frenzy of blood lust. These reports are common.
I admire wolves in their proper natural territory, but this entire enterprise needs to be un-done.
What is the next bright idea to from environmental meddlers...to import swarms of African killer bees? "
Joseph wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:25 PM:
and MICHAEL
well said Snakeman
Farmers have been using the same excuse for years to justify the killing of these magnificent animals,and any others they wish to kill.. "
Top Cat wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:34 PM:
Frybread wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:38 PM:
Brian wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:39 PM:
Pyro wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:49 PM:
Lance wrote on Apr 1, 2008 4:14 PM:
Jim wrote on Apr 1, 2008 4:32 PM:
wake up Wyo wrote on Apr 1, 2008 4:35 PM:
They've been collecting extra money for "wolf kills" that they fabricated, now what?
Wyoming is so backwards that we're almost meeting ourselves in the middle. Allowing red neck "hunters" to go off and kill wolves gives them more excuses to get drunk and go out and shoot animals.
Hopefully they'll shoot themselves in the foot figuratively at least, by their exhuberant killing frenzy and the wolves will go back to being protected. I'd rather the wolves got the welfare checks than these ranchers. "
Elmer Fudd wrote on Apr 1, 2008 4:56 PM:
Name calling just shows you have no real point to make. These vicious animals should have never been turned loose on us in the first place. Anybody who's seen a coyote eat a live lamb knows why I kill coyotes. Guess if anybody saw a wolfe eating a live calf maybe they'd have the same feeling. "
wy0right wrote on Apr 1, 2008 5:23 PM:
cliff wrote on Apr 1, 2008 5:55 PM:
jason wrote on Apr 1, 2008 6:01 PM:
mindboggled wrote on Apr 1, 2008 6:21 PM:
Redneck Hunter wrote on Apr 1, 2008 6:36 PM:
" It is sad that we still live in the 21st century and rednecks are still alive and breeding. I will certainly support an action to put them in my gun scope and take out the bad gene pool. "
WOW!
You would actually come on a public forum and talk about killing another human being just because they dont believe the same as you.
UNBELIEVABLE! "
Idaho guy wrote on Apr 1, 2008 6:48 PM:
adam wrote on Apr 1, 2008 7:11 PM:
G&F sucks wrote on Apr 1, 2008 7:20 PM:
I would suggest a course in wildlife biology before you spout off about "Canadian" wolves. It is well known fact that a number of wolves were present in Montana and Idaho prior to the release of the Alberta caught wolves in 1995/1996. These wolves obviously dispersed from Canada. This is what happened for thousands of years before Europeans showed up on the continent and before an artificial "border" separated the US and Canada. It is the same sub-species of gray wolf.
As for your comments about wildlife populations being down over 80%, this is just silly and you know it as this article from a rival paper on March 25th shows http://www.jhguide.com/article.php?art_id=2884. and wolves "killing for fun" is a complete mis-characterization. Stop drinking from the trough (literally) of Ron Gilette and all of his crazies.
"
Hop A Long wrote on Apr 1, 2008 8:14 PM:
Tea anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"
Hatewolf Killemall wrote on Apr 1, 2008 9:00 PM:
SSGT Ron wrote on Apr 1, 2008 10:54 PM:
Hunter wrote on Apr 2, 2008 1:06 AM:
earthling wrote on Apr 2, 2008 5:53 AM:
sunrise wrote on Apr 2, 2008 6:38 AM:
DewD wrote on Apr 2, 2008 8:54 AM:
John wrote on Apr 2, 2008 9:02 AM:
KevinN wrote on Apr 2, 2008 9:37 AM:
As far as the "facts" listed here, IE: "A pair of grays killing 63 Domestic livestock in a single night". I'd like to see a link to this report or any one of the other "common" ones like it. Or is it just an old farmers tale, perpetuated by people that will believe anything they hear or read?
"Wildlife heds are down?" Then why is MT and ID reporting record Elk numbers this year? And I'm pretty sure that MT introduced a "late" Elk hunt a while back to reduce Elk numbers in certain areas and it's still in affect as of last year, granted with less tags issued, but still in affect. Wouldn't this indicate the herds were still to large?
I just hope that not everyone that reads just this article or the replies to it are smart enough to look for all the facts before they make a judgement on what is the "truth".
For the record I think all wildlife should be managed and part of that is "Hunting". WY is shooting themselves in the foot by not making the entire state a "Trophy" zone. There are plenty of people that would be willing to pay a lot of money to "Hunt" wolves. But as it stands now, they are losing money that could have been made in license sales and money spent within the state by hunters willing to pay to hunt wolves. Also, I agree, shooting an animal without a license is not hunting and does nothing for the economy of the state. I understand the whole thing about Ranchers losing livestock. But should Farmers be allowed to shoot Deer and Elk that graze on their crops?
Kevin "
GaryD wrote on Apr 2, 2008 9:40 AM:
GoWyio wrote on Apr 2, 2008 9:56 AM:
IdahoHawkeye wrote on Apr 2, 2008 10:58 AM:
QYB wrote on Apr 2, 2008 12:25 PM:
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 2, 2008 12:37 PM:
You can be assured these wolves are here to stay! If we hunted these animals everyday all day long our impacts will be small. The wolves are growing in numbers at 30 percent a year. Documented by wolf lovers not hunters or ranchers. In Alaska they have year-round seasons and no limits. They haven't killed them all. Matter of fact the numbers are over 9,000 wolves.
I want you wolf lovers to go to Yellowstone National Park and take a picture of the elk you find this summer. If your smart enough to get that close to and elk!! Then when that herd crashes in the next ten years and the tourists like you can't find an elk. Show that picture to your children and grand children and tell them how proud you are of your accomplishments. Because if nothing is done in Yellowstone It's going to happen.
Fact, when the wolves were killed off in yellowstone many years ago the hunters killed 30 wolves. Now how many wolves live there? At least 300. Fact, the wolf that was indigenous to that area weighed about 80 pounds. The big males weigh 200 pounds today!!
I did not ask for wolves in my back yard,but I not going to sacrifice our big game herds becase of your bleeding hearts.Go ahead and spend your money on lawyers, I'm saving mine for bullets. Meanwhile I'm going to spend as much time as I have trying to bring a balance to the part of the world I love, the mountains of Wyoming. "
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 2, 2008 1:03 PM:
crazy horse wrote on Apr 2, 2008 2:00 PM:
Rick wrote on Apr 2, 2008 2:53 PM:
A couple of weeks ago, 34 Bison were slaughtered, and left to rot. Why? because they were on the wrong ranch! LMAO! So, the chicken *ground rules* rancher slaughtered someone elses "cattle" because they on his land. I hope they hang him by his ground rules!! AFTER he pays for the Bison.
Story in todays post (April 2, 2008) Ranchers charged with 32 counts of killing Elk without a license, 32 counts of destruction of wild game!! Why? because they were on the "ranchers" lands!! two seperate ranchers, same chicken ground rules attitude!! Their land is their land, our land is their land, and anything that is anywhere on any land is fair game to be destroyed!!
You know, I do from time to time enjoy a hamburger, or a steak. However, I dont really think that cows, sheep and ranchers should be the only animals on earth. I think that there is room here for the Bison, Elk, and Wolf. It seems that I am having a great difficulty wrapping my brain around this subject from the ranchers side. I really cant lower my IQ to that level to even go there. Afterall, if they were very bright, they wouldn't be in a bussiness where EVERYTHING is a threat to their livelyhood. If they were very bright, they would make a living doing something that does not require state and federal welfare, as well as, warfare, to feed their families. If they were even a little bright, they wouldn't rn their "cattle" that is being raised to be food, with wolves. I understand that ranching serves a vital part to our society. However, It makes me ill to listen to the constant whinning and crying that comes from these guys and gals. I am opposed to ALL forms of welfare. If you cant make your business run, either work for someone, or try a different business. Dont depend on society to pay for every slumble that you come across.
I also know that the Canadian Grey Wolf is not native to this part of the world. Neither is Beef or Sheep. So, I say we let 'em run around together and see how the animal world takes care of the situation. Let's see who EARNS that spot in the woods. "
Dingus McGee wrote on Apr 2, 2008 2:54 PM:
I wish you would have done at least one aspect of the open season on woves different. About 3 weeks before the open season you would have sold shooting permits to "greenies" allowing them to shoot salt from shootguns at wolves that hung around the disease infested winter elk feeding grounds. This would have trained the wolves to recognized the redneck hunter icon early enough to get out of sight. It sounds like the 3 wolf kills were like shooting catfish in a barrel. "
handlebar wrote on Apr 2, 2008 3:13 PM:
LBJ wrote on Apr 2, 2008 3:56 PM:
The wolf's reintroduction has reached success. Now G&F will manage the population at a healthy, sustainable level.
The wolf's management being turned over to G&F marks this success.
Regulation of the animal as a trophy species means that wolves will have relevance beyond esoteric purposes to man and like the species of Africa that were brought back from the brink of extinction by regulated hunting, so shall the wolf remain on this earth due to prudent, regulated harvest.
We have all won.
"
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 2, 2008 3:56 PM:
"
Jeff wrote on Apr 2, 2008 4:32 PM:
Jeff wrote on Apr 2, 2008 4:37 PM:
" "Hunters".???....what a joke. They're your typical red-necked cowards. Can you imagine them "hunting" something that was capable of shooting back? "
Could you imagine a city slicker getting some meat, fowl, or fish without going to the drive through?
"
Wyo wrote on Apr 2, 2008 5:20 PM:
As far as people making negative comments about citizens of wyoming who went out wolf hunting the first weekend make themselves look ignorant. Majority of wyoming people are not rednecks who beat there wives and have a bloodlust second only to wolves. Killing only 4 of the 30-35 wolves that live outside the trophy zone will have no impact. Heck killing all the wolves outside the zone will have no impact as officials have stated in other articles in th CST. The FWS has killed a large number of wolves every year...mostly outside the trophy zone...and even still the overall population continues to grow at an astounding pace. There has been over 40 wolves killed this winter between thermopolis and just north of meteetse, which will have very little impact on overall health of the wolf population. To all the nay-sayers the states plan will work. Just give it a chance. I am also confident the injuction and lawsuits will be thrown out of court later this month.
Other facts, some disagree that the wolves transplanted here are the same as the ones originally here. That is not ture. For example the shiras moose found in wyoming is a smaller subspecies of moose as compared to the canadian moose which is even smaller than the alaska-yukon species of moose. Same deal with the wolves. The wolves were still present in wyoming before reintroduction but the wolf pushers didn't buy it even though physical proof existed. It was until the same week that a shipment of wolves from canada was about to be sent when enough evidence showing native wolves still existed in wyoming that the wolf group finally believed us. So this issue immediatly went before a judge who ruled that because the wolves ready for transplant were already in captivity in canada that something must be done with them or they would die...so on to wyoming the came to eventually replace the native wolf with a far superior and larger killing machine. This is fact, again do the research. Finally one last note. Those who believe wolves don't, or seldomly kill for fun you are WAY wrong. I've seen it in person and if you want to see more about that visit saveourelk.com
I like wolves but I also like all of our other wildlife. So it is imperative that they be controlled and managed just like the rest of our wildlife. "
Sickened wrote on Apr 2, 2008 5:38 PM:
Sickened wrote on Apr 2, 2008 5:58 PM:
kid wrote on Apr 2, 2008 6:30 PM:
GoWyo wrote on Apr 2, 2008 10:23 PM:
Lamp Lighter wrote on Apr 2, 2008 10:38 PM:
14 wrote on Apr 2, 2008 11:56 PM:
Big Horn Basin wrote on Apr 3, 2008 2:16 AM:
I think the underlying issue here is states rights. Most of the REAL WYOMING RESIDENTS I know did not want wolves reintroduced here, because we have ancestors who spent a considerable amount of time and effort to rid the state of these animals for a reason. The USFWS has lied and fed us BS since before the first wolf was released. For those of you with short memories, do a little research on a gentleman from Worland by the name of Jerry Kysar.
Personally, I have no issue with wolves in Yellowstone and I think Wyoming's plan is appropriate. And with the less than accurate comment about only 30 to 35 wovles outside the trophy area, I probably won't run across any wolf huggers anyway since they will all be in the parking lots in Yellowstone. "
earthling wrote on Apr 3, 2008 6:17 AM:
Over It wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:01 AM:
Wyoming has finally got a management plan that works. Let me remind you that YOUR elected officials as well as the general public APPROVED this plan after an extensive scoping.
I look forward to the opportunity to harvest one of these great animals this Fall. My thirty or so elk hunters are anxious as well!
Let the "Eco Terrorist tears flow!
FYI...wolf hunters should be sure to use a "Full Metal Jacketed" bullet.....they are very effective. "
RA wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:24 AM:
DK wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:27 AM:
Cody Coyote wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:51 AM:
huntergreen wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:01 AM:
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:02 AM:
crazy horse wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:20 AM:
Sally wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:22 AM:
"
IdahoHawkeye wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:50 AM:
huntergreen wrote on Apr 3, 2008 11:05 AM:
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 3, 2008 11:36 AM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeD45eM_DN0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoH9GvEgxwI
"
Pack wrote on Apr 3, 2008 12:03 PM:
Pack wrote on Apr 3, 2008 12:31 PM:
Heather wrote on Apr 3, 2008 12:33 PM:
I thought that the press was to report the news not distort of create it themselves.
We need to add ethics classes in liberal arts colleges apparently.
"
Heather wrote on Apr 3, 2008 12:42 PM:
"
Des wrote on Apr 3, 2008 1:01 PM:
These majestic creatures have as much right to life as you do,if not more.
Who the hell do you people think you are to play god?
Ever considered other solutions to your livestock problem than getting out a gun like completely braindead rednecks? "
KevinN wrote on Apr 3, 2008 2:46 PM:
The problem I have with people from WY, MT and ID saying "it's our back yard let us decide what is best", is that that U in USA stands for United. Unless you've forgotten. So all citizens of this country have a say what happens on PUBLIC land and in National Parks.
So I have a questoin/analogy for those of you that haven't personally served in one branch of military service or the other. Should you enjoy the freedoms that I and my brothers/sisters in arms fought to defend for you since you haven't personally served?
For the record, I believe the wolves should be managed as all other wildlife is, but shooting them just to shoot them is cowardly. "Predator" status and management don't go hand in hand. Ranchers, landowners and anyone else for that matter, should have a right to defend their livestock, pets, property and families just like everyone else has the right to do so from anyone or anything that may threaten them. And no I'm not opposed to a controlled 'trophy' hunt.
Oh and "our elk herds". Since when are they yours? Because they live in your state. What do you do if they decide to wander on down to CO? Round them up and drive them back home? What a joke. They are a NATURAL resource and they don't belong to you.
"
Colin wrote on Apr 3, 2008 3:29 PM:
Lamp Lighter wrote on Apr 3, 2008 3:53 PM:
DK wrote on Apr 3, 2008 5:51 PM:
iri4q2 wrote on Apr 3, 2008 6:26 PM:
Sickened wrote on Apr 3, 2008 6:49 PM:
And Pack, maybe the wolves you attempted to kill were not old & crippled, but you ought to ask Wolfhunter abut the condition of one of the wolves he is so proud to claim to have killed. "
Des wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:14 PM:
but we are the civilised ones here aren't we?
there must be other solutions rather than killing them.we are already destroying this planet of ours at a rate of knots,we need to preserve endangered species for future generations to enjoy.
I mean if you had a disagreement with your neighbour,would your solution be to shoot them or try work something out?,i hope it would be the latter.
Let us just imagine there are no guns...now use your brains to think up other solutions......
come together to think up peaceful constructive solutions that will benefit all concerned...
use this post to put forward ideas,come on people..... "
wolf hating red neck wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:25 PM:
Red wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:22 PM:
RLA wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:32 PM:
Tguide wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:30 PM:
LarryNWyo wrote on Apr 4, 2008 6:27 AM:
Hate to say it, we kill nuisances, we shoot and kill coyotes, prairie dogs, rock chucks and now we are going to shoot wolves, get over it! We are protecting our lands and livelihoods! I do not know of very many ranchers or farmers who would be opposed to me “murdering” a town of prairie dogs, they are a menace, just as coyotes and wolves are.
OH John, you do not need a licence to hunt predators, just a gun! Should you see a wolf or a coyote, let me caution you, get it in your sights, and kill it with the first shot, chances are that will be the only chance you get.. On your way to the hunt, stop a prairie dog town, take a few shot until you are comfortable with your sights, then go get’m! OH and please take pictures and get them posted at the local sporting goods sore so we can envy you when we are buying our ammo. "
wolf hatin red neck wrote on Apr 4, 2008 6:56 AM:
anti4wheeler wrote on Apr 4, 2008 7:14 AM:
ps. save 10,000 elk; shoot a wolf
pps. Welcome to Wyoming: frankly, I don't care how you did it back home! "
LBJ wrote on Apr 4, 2008 8:55 AM:
"
pack wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:06 AM:
Cody Coyote wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:57 AM:
His observations show that us White People have utterly wrecked the wildlife balance in the region out of greed and the territorial imperative. Elk herd numbers in the 1830's were astronomical in size and dispersment. Bull Elk had 12-thine antlers and stood more than a foot higher at the shoulders than our genetically diminished animals today. Russell observed herds of mountain sheep above Dubois ( Brooks Lake, Crescent Mtn , Ramshorn ) that numbered in many thousands ). He also described very very few encounters with not one but two sub-species of native Wolves ---a Prairie Wolf, and a much larger Buffalo Wolf---as well as Coyotes, the so called medicine Wolf that was feared more than the bigger canids because it was smart and worked alone and did guerilla antics. Both native Americans and mountain men respected Coyotes and used them as unpaid watchdogs. But they had little to say about Wolves, because the Wolves were seldom seen. They shied away from humans, kept their distance
and hardly came into the narrative. Russell also lamented that the once mighty herds of Bison were already being depleted by 1845 by market hunters . The Beaver was already largely trapped out in the northern Rockies, and those two "programs" of destroying the Bison and Beaver populations are the single greatest ecological disasters rendered by man onto nature in our parts. It changed the landscape terribly . The Market Hunters who came after Russell in the later 1800's did their best to destroy Big Game herds and drive Elk into the mountains and , yes, Yellowstone seeking refuges. When Old Timers tell you that their fathers hardly saw Deer or Elk or Antelope in Wyoming it was not because of Wolves or Coyotes, it was becaus their grandfathers had practiced outright genocide on Big Game across Wyoming and the West.
I Therefore refuse to allow the modern day "hunter" and the modern day cattle and sheep rancher to have any sway in the argument over Wolf reintroduction , because it is they , not the Wolf, that is the lingeing problem of our times, the descendants of Usurpers, the grandchildren of genocidal wildlife management gone wrong. Simply put, cattle do not belong in the mountains of Wyoming. And no Great White Hunter or Sportsman for Fish & Wildlife has any claim that Wolves are taking " their" trophy Elk or Moose or Deer. Those creatures never " belonged" to you in the first place, so please don't whine about losing hunting opportunity to Wolves. You have that concept exactly backwards. We are taking away the wrong specie by killing "excess" Wolves who wander into some arbitrary Predator Zone.
Now, here is some astounding Raw Intel for you who claim that Wolves outside Yellowstone in the Trophy Zone of northwest Wyoming are doing great harm to Elk herds. They are not. Game & Fish personnel in the Cody District are slowly waking up to the realization that Wolf Packs are basically not hammering down Elk. Their own observations , ehretofore non-public, are showing the Wolves having far less impact than expected on Elk herds west of Cody. Game and Fish cannot justify saying Elk are suffering Wolves. Getting them to admit that may be a ways off yet, but it's coming. The natural balance between ungulates and large canid carnivores is slowly grabbing hold in the Absarokas.
It's only been 12 years, after all. Even in my lifetime in Cody , things have been dramatically worse. In the early 1960's, the northern portion of Yellowstone was so overpopulated by Elk that they had to bring in hired guns, who shot literally thousands of Elk and bulldozed them into mass graves at the infamous Gardiner Firing Line. That was hugely unpopular, just as Montana killing the Bison who exit Yellowstone today has become, but only with 1/10th the fervor. Can you imagine the uproar that would break out if we started killing down the Jackson Hole Elk Refuge herds on a firing line ?
This is what 100 years of NO Wolves has come to. As I write, every Elk herd in the Cody area is well above the desired herd count. Cue the Wolves. The Canadian Grey wolf may be just a cousin to the native Wyoming Wolf that was exterminated before 1930 , but they do know how to hunt Elk well. But the question is emerging...why aren't the Wolves taking more Elk ? Because there are far more Deer to be had ?---maybe, and there is no doubt that Mule Deer herds in Park County are w-a-a-a-a-y above desired populations, and research is showing that smaller Wolf packs prefer to hunt Deer than Elk or Moose.
Humans hunting with rifles are very near the bottom of the list for effective wildlife management methods. In the case of Elk and Moose and Mule Deer, the modern hunter does more harm than good by taking as many of the prime specimens out of the gene pool as his/her ego will allow. Recall Osborne Russell's majestic 12 x 12 Royal Bulls thatw eihed nearly 2000 lbs and had seven inches of fat on its rump, then ask how many of those have been seen in our lifetime.....NONE.
As for Wolves and ranchers, well the cattlemen get no sympathy from me. They are the encroachers and the ones who should be de-introduced. Might I suggest Platte County or Niobrara County as critical cattle baron habitat?
The Bottom Line is really going to upset some folks in this lively discussion: that Human Beings are lousy wildlife managers and stewards of the land. We simply have not learned . Yet we continue to believ in some false dogma of Manifest Destiny that all this land and the mountains of northwest Wyoming are given to us to do with as we please. What supreme arrogance. Man has really messed up the mountains since lewis and Clark and the renegade John Colter came thru the country in the years of Thomas Jefferson's legacy.
I am thankful that enough of Wyoming's wildness remains that bringing back the Wolf has a reasonable chance of succeeding where we have failed; to restore these balances while there is still enoughr esource to work from. If only we have the wisdom to leave the politics, the money , and the ego far away from the high country and the headwater riparian areas, ( and ban the ATV's from wildlife range while we are at it...)
If you take away the rifles, handguns, vehicle keys and briefcases, Man is seventh down the list of Predators in northwest Wyoming, well behind the Grizzly , the Wolf, Cougar, Wolverine, Eagle, and Coyote. Some of the pseudo-Osborne Russell's with their dim education who have written in here would do well to remember that. They need to take a longer view, across many generations , adn try to learn something and apply it. That process is called Wisdom. I see too little of it when it comes to Wolves in Wyoming.
The Wolf is wildlife, too. Learn that much if you learn nothing else. "
wolf hating red neck wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:59 AM:
crazy horse wrote on Apr 4, 2008 11:26 AM:
And to you online editor - getting tired of you throwing out comments that simply respond to attacks. In case you did NOT notice, Des has used "idiot, stupid, and brain dead". My comment is no more so inflamatory than that comment, so try to attempt to have a level playing field IF YOU ARE CAPABLE. This individual is CLEARLY ignorant of any facts, and THAT"S a fact. "
An Inconvenient Truth wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:33 PM:
"
Wyhunter wrote on Apr 4, 2008 2:15 PM:
I have no problem with controlling wolves, but the wolves aren't nearly as bad as most of these folks want you to believe. They do belong here, period. "
Olivia wrote on Apr 4, 2008 4:16 PM:
A true predator is one which kills and eats another organism.
Oh wait, I guess humans are the uttermost massive, immense, colossal, infinite, limitless, predators in existence. We carry guns and they have teeth and claws. They were here before we were yet we are better (in what, sense intelligence?)
So why don't we just leave them be, live side by side, hunt together? Fair game right? Make the hunting game more competitive ay!
"
sickened wrote on Apr 4, 2008 4:46 PM:
DK wrote on Apr 4, 2008 5:49 PM:
Hunter with no apologies wrote on Apr 4, 2008 6:02 PM:
As far as the wolf situation here in Wyoming goes, I think we have an effective wolf management program, but only time will tell. The wolf has been successfully reintroduced into the Yellowstone ecosystem. However, scientists have set a carrying capacity for the ecosystem and the wolf population within that system. The wolf population exceeds the carrying capacity, hence the need for management. Humans are the only way to manage the wolf. Wyoming people got bullied into the wolf reintroduction, and now the state of Wyoming has to manage the wolf to meet the carrying capacity. People cannot shoot wolves in Yellowstone Park, and must have a license to shoot a wolf in a trophy zone. They can however, shoot a wolf outside of those two zones. Why, because, Wyoming did not agree to have wolves introduced into the entire state, just to the Yellowstone Park ecosystem.
I would bet most people on this forum that are "extreme" wolf lovers, do not live in Wyoming. They live in a state that has been over developed and can no longer support the wild game it did a hundred years ago, due to habitat loss (habitat loss is the reason why mule deer populations are struggling). I would also bet most left wing wolf lovers have never been to Yellowstone Park or objectively looked at the problems wolves are causing in Wyoming, Idaho, or Montana. They just want to brag to their friends they are members of an organization that "helped" reintroduce wolves into Yellowstone Park. If the extreme left wing wolf lovers really cared about wild animals, they would try to limit the human population. After all, humans are the problem. If we did not have two to three kids per family and millions of illegal aliens in the United States, we would sure have a lot more habitat for the wolf and other animals. I wonder what United States citizens would say if the government tried to tell them they could have only a limited amount of children, because we needed more habitat for the wolf. I also wonder how much habitat and resources was wasted today by all you "self proclaimed" wolf lovers. All that gas to drive to work, resources used to feed your three to four kids, and the habitat wasted by the house you live in. Not to mention, all the resources and habitat wasted by computer manufactures, so you can sit at your desk, probably at work, and type on this forum. "Hypocrisy knows no bounds", but I at least on this issue, I am no hypocrite. I am a hunter and make no apologies for it.
"
Hunter with no apologies wrote on Apr 4, 2008 6:17 PM:
I think everyone should know that every species that is hunted today are at all time highs in North America, except for the mule deer. Why are they at an all time high? Because, of hunter’s dollars and volunteer work by hunters. Members of PETA and other animal rights activist groups sure are not donating as much money, if any, to improve animal populations, or habitat. If I had to guess, they spend a lot their money on legal fees, for filing law suits. The Federal Government realized a long time ago, they could not properly manage animals and turned the management over to the states. I would venture to say that most state governments could not afford to manage the wildlife without money from hunters. I spend thousands of dollars each year on hunting licenses, donating to the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF), and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (RMEF). The RMEF played an important role in the reintroductions of elk into the State of Kentucky, not PETA or similar animal rights organizations. Not all members of MDF or RMEF are hunters, but the vast majority are.
As far as the wolf situation here in Wyoming goes, I think we have an effective wolf management program, but only time will tell. The wolf has been successfully reintroduced into the Yellowstone ecosystem. However, scientists have set a carrying capacity for the ecosystem and the wolf population within that system. The wolf population exceeds the carrying capacity, hence the need for management. Humans are the only way to manage the wolf. Wyoming people got bullied into the wolf reintroduction, and now the state of Wyoming has to manage the wolf to meet the carrying capacity. People cannot shoot wolves in Yellowstone Park, and must have a license to shoot a wolf in a trophy zone. They can however, shoot a wolf outside of those two zones. Why, because, Wyoming did not agree to have wolves introduced into the entire state, just to the Yellowstone Park ecosystem.
I would bet most people on this forum that are "extreme" wolf lovers, do not live in Wyoming. They live in a state that has been over developed and can no longer support the wild game it did a hundred years ago, due to habitat loss (habitat loss is the reason why mule deer populations are struggling). I would also bet most left wing wolf lovers have never been to Yellowstone Park or objectively looked at the problems wolves are causing in Wyoming, Idaho, or Montana. They just want to brag to their friends they are members of an organization that "helped" reintroduce wolves into Yellowstone Park. If the extreme left wing wolf lovers really cared about wild animals, they would try to limit the human population. After all, humans are really the problem. If people did not have two to three kids per family or if millions of illegal aliens did not exist in the United States, we would sure have a lot more habitat for the wolf and other animals. I wonder what United States citizens would say if the government tried to tell them they could have only one child, because we needed more habitat for the wolf. I also wonder how much habitat and resources was wasted today by all you "self proclaimed" wolf lovers. All that gas to drive to work, resources used to feed your three to four kids, and the habitat wasted by the house you live in. Not to mention, all the resources and habitat wasted by computer manufactures, so you can sit at your desk, probably at work, and type on this blog. "Hypocrisy knows no bounds", but I at least on this issue, I am no hypocrite. I am a hunter and apologies to no one for it.
"
RA wrote on Apr 5, 2008 8:28 AM:
I have to agree with dk about the eagles to. Where are the greenies on that one! "
anti4wheeler wrote on Apr 5, 2008 9:27 AM:
ps. If you want to come visit Wyoming, fine. Keep your mouth shut, admire our old-fashioned ways and our wilderness, and go home. If you have a problem with previously mentioned 'old-fashioned ways', stay home (or go to Montana). "
anti4wheeler wrote on Apr 5, 2008 9:44 AM:
iri4q2 wrote on Apr 5, 2008 10:32 AM:
sickened wrote on Apr 5, 2008 12:57 PM:
anti4wheeler, again, you show your ignorance with your unfounded assumptions. One would also think you you wouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Your family has made so much money of us "tourists", yet you don't want us there. Wow, that make so much sense. And "true Wyoming people", since 1904?? I'm impressed! I guess we truly native people, who's family has been there for for generations before yours even came to this country & lost their land to "homesteaders", don't count? Not only ignorant but arrogant. As far as liking to hear a wolf howl, & those just living their lives out in the wilderness having no problem, I think the attitude of the killers who were out in force last weekend proved that to be untrue..
BTW redneck, Don't be thanking me too soon, I only promised not to spend money in Wyoming, I never said I wouldn't be back. No chance of me keeping my mouth shut either. I'll still be there, educating visitors about wolves, every chance I get, which is often. (I believe we do still have freedom of speech, even in Wyoming). The difference is Montana will be getting my money from now on.
I've been spending time in Montana & Wyoming for years, & even though there are unfortunately many people like you, there are so many who aren't, now including Montana's governor, so I'm hopeful, not disappointed. Yes things are changing.
Delaware will have to wait.. :-) "
Cowboybob80 wrote on Apr 5, 2008 1:19 PM:
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 5, 2008 3:09 PM:
RLA wrote on Apr 5, 2008 4:50 PM:
Ryan wrote on Apr 5, 2008 5:05 PM:
Sandra wrote on Apr 5, 2008 6:11 PM:
Sandra in Santa Fe, NM "
anti4wheeler wrote on Apr 5, 2008 6:44 PM:
Wolves have a place in Wyoming, as do mtn. sheep, elk, pronghorn, deer, beaver, bobcat, coyote...etc. They should be managed and hunted just like all of these animals are. Which of these commonly hunted species are struggling with extinction? Wolves will be the same. The last 75 years of wildlife management in the US demonstrate that wildlife can be hunted and yet retain a stable population. I do not understand why wolves would be the exception. "
stay in NM wrote on Apr 6, 2008 4:38 AM:
Since you do not like handouts then you should have no problem paying for a state issued conservation stamp/sticker for your vehicle to access public non fee area lands as i believe one should be required.
Those who have hunting and/or fishing licences should get them with said licence they already pay.
I am tired of all the people carping about the cattle industry yet use the land without cost. You MAY pay taxes but you do not have to pay for your activities on public lands outside fee areas. This is a poor example of our tax dollars especially when so many cant carry our what they carry in. I know this because every time i visit public lands i pick up 1 or more bags of trash left behind by others.
You also failed to mention or are uninformed as to the cost to the rancher over and above the lease they pay. For example fence upkeep at their expence on the leased land. You probably never had to dig a post hole or string wire let alone buying the material and paying the labor cost.
"
Cody Coyote wrote on Apr 6, 2008 8:17 AM:
DewD wrote on Apr 6, 2008 8:38 AM:
But I have one more Eagle story for you. Back in 1971 , Wyoming's largest sheep rancher, herman werner, was finally caught redhanded for killing over a thousand Bald Eagles by gunning them from airplanes and helicopters in Carbon and Natrona counties. And poisoning them with thiocyanate and worse. He wantonly wasted Eagles to protect his damn sheep flocks. He was found out when a US Air Force thermal imaging system detected the heat of a pile of rotting Eagle carcasses behind some outbuildings on his ranch, and a warrant was served. Up till then , no prosecution was possible because there were too few carcasses for hard evidence. Herman Werner, the Sheep King of Wyoming, became an icon of Western ranchers flaunting the law and Nature for their own vile motives. He gave all ranchers a bad name, and that echo can still be heard today in the Stephen Stills song " Last Lonely Eagle" from the Manassass album. Werner's genocide against predators is a strain that runs strong in ranchers, whether they will admit it or not. We have plenty of it around Cody with respect to Wolves, Grizzlies and other carnivorous wildlife that happens to make its living by eating red meat. Ranchers need to go back to school , then sit down and have a heart-to-heart with their accountant on the viability of cattle production in marginal mountainous lands of wyoming this day and age. It isn't the Wolf that's putting ranchers on the ropes. They do a lot of that all by themselves, and the entire economic engine of cattle ranching these days runs in different directions than Wyoming can---or should---go. It's not the 19 th century any longer, folks. "
RLA wrote on Apr 6, 2008 8:58 AM:
You are ignorant about ranching. I know of no "hand outs" ranchers recieve. Those that are fortunate enough to graze public land do get a good deal on grazing fees, but they still pay a fee, and some ranchers pay over a $100K for those leases. I honestly think some are abused and over grazed, especially in these dry years. But all in all, I will take sides with a family rancher any day, over the likes of you! THey are hard working, down to earth, good people. "
sickened wrote on Apr 6, 2008 9:56 AM:
GoWyo wrote on Apr 6, 2008 9:57 AM:
It is not always easy to tell when a wolf killed a cow if you find it after several days and not immediately. Defenders of Wildlife does not always pay actual market value of anything fancier than a common cow ($1200) versus a nice purebred animal which may be valued at two or three times that amount. Fact is wolves are a major headache for ranchers and too many of them are hell on other wildlife. We now have this compromise to see how wolves in the protected trophy zone fare while we keep them out of areas where we have decided as a political matter that their presence is no longer appropriate.
Now, does a .223 work well on wolves or should I get out something bigger? "
TomT wrote on Apr 6, 2008 10:04 AM:
I'm very willing to accept that cows make methane. Guess what... so do you. The campus bovine hating enviro's quickly promote the cow/methane theory but refuse to further extrapolate what happens when you remove that much beef from the supply chain. What will YOU eat when we all are forced to stop eating beef and are forced to compete with your food source? Since you also hate guns, once your genius food plan results in anarchy you won't be able to keep your granola anyway. Your enviro movement hates farmers, you hate cows, and you hate hunters. If YOU were in charge of the world, we'd all eat dirt but the Disney bunnies and Bambi would be happy. I don't blame you. I blame your 60's and 70's pot smoking liberal mommies and daddies for pampering you and sending you to college where you can spend your 20's trying to "find yourself" or "make a difference". As for the wolves, instead of rejoicing the success of the wolf recovery program, you expose yourselves as preservationists rather than conservationists, which tells me yourwill always have an unbalanced view of nature and animals. "
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 6, 2008 12:13 PM:
Codycyote you might have the gift of fancy words but your a disgrace to Wyoming. Jim Bridger and John Colter and the rest of the mountain men would be ashamed of you! I'll bet Bridger and Colter would have shot these wolves too. "
kyle wrote on Apr 6, 2008 12:24 PM:
wolf hating red neck wrote on Apr 6, 2008 12:34 PM:
i don't know where you get off defending the "defenders of wildlife" but i can tell you first hand that they DO NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING unless they want to. i know this for a FACT. Global warming, you havn't been to wyoming for a while have you. please stay in NM and please try to become more educated before you open your mouth about things that do not effect you. "
Wyo wrote on Apr 6, 2008 2:15 PM:
Fed Up wrote on Apr 6, 2008 7:08 PM:
Bill From Wyoming wrote on Apr 6, 2008 11:21 PM:
Thanks
Bill "
Tguide wrote on Apr 7, 2008 7:48 AM:
Missourian wrote on Apr 7, 2008 8:25 AM:
"
Eddie Valdez wrote on Apr 7, 2008 9:20 AM:
The wolves on Isle Royale been around for 50 years alongside the resident moose herd. The moose aren't extinct yet. To the contrary the populations seems to have increased: http://tinyurl.com/5f5m6b
Habitat and climate conditions will likely have greater influence over area ungulate populations than wolves. Despite what some might have you believe. "
huntergreen wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:41 PM:
highmarkin wrote on Apr 7, 2008 9:03 PM:
SouthWest WYO!! GO POKES!! wrote on Apr 7, 2008 9:06 PM:
GaryD wrote on Apr 8, 2008 9:12 AM:
The perfect gun for wolfing is the one you have in your hands when you see one. "
pack wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:25 AM:
Derek wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:23 PM:
imbarrassedto b fromwy wrote on Apr 8, 2008 5:06 PM:
RLA wrote on Apr 8, 2008 5:13 PM:
GoWyo wrote on Apr 8, 2008 9:56 PM:
Cindy K wrote on Apr 9, 2008 2:18 PM:
Hmmm... wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:23 PM:
eloise L. wrote on Apr 10, 2008 12:03 AM:
There is no appealing to common sense. Wyoming especially - only lawsuits will do.
EARTHJUSTICE folks - or the wolves will be all gone again.... "
crazy horse wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:29 AM:
Mike M wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:14 AM:
Tguide wrote on Apr 10, 2008 11:43 AM:
sickened wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:48 PM:
Paul K wrote on Apr 11, 2008 9:32 AM:
In the meantime, those of you who are outraged at these fools and the public welfare ranchers who continue to suck the lifeblood of our wildlands for almost nothing, why don't you shoot a cow or two the next time you are out in the field. If you would all drop a cow or two now and then, maybe these idiots would get the message that they alone do not control our public lands. "
crazy horse wrote on Apr 11, 2008 11:19 AM:
Tguide wrote on Apr 11, 2008 12:51 PM:
heads up wrote on Apr 11, 2008 7:14 PM:
wolf hating red neck wrote on Apr 12, 2008 10:04 AM:
i would love to see the govt. try to take my guns that will never happen so forget that idea. i sure hope you don't live in wyo and please don't even visit our great state. gowyo kill more wolves.
elosie L.
keep on dontating til you are broke and hopefully then you can't afford to come to our great state. why can't you liberals the point that we don't care what you think and you should have no opinion on what goes on in wyoming. if wolves could be shot on site at any time in the whole state, and that's the way it should be, we will never get rid of them again. so quit feeling sorry for wolves and maybe you should start thinking about the ranchers that feed you and the whole country. "
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 12, 2008 4:09 PM:
Tguide wrote on Apr 15, 2008 8:13 AM:
Brian wrote on Apr 15, 2008 8:29 AM:
Hunters come from all walks of life and all educational levels. I hunt with doctors and unemployed folks. The abundant wildlife we all enjoy would not be here if it was not for the millions of dollars hunters spent each year.
Beyond that is our genuine fondness and care we show for the animals we hunt. Myself and countless other hunters spend a great deal of time on habitat improvement and other conservation. There were very few deer, turkey and other animals on a piece of property I purchased years ago. Through investments of my time and money, the habitat was improved to provide better food, cover and access to water and since animal populations have moved in and thrived. Not just the occasional deer or turkey I kill to eat, but all wildlife has benefitted. Red-neck hunter only interested in killing?
Yes, we kill them, like humans have done for tens of thousands of years. No amount of so-called political correctness will ever stop the thousands of years of honed, human instincts. My family loves to eat wild venison, turkey, boar and fish. Stuff in the stores just doesn't compare. Hunters prefer to take the responsibility of doing the killing of the food themselves, not relying on a butcher hidden behind closed doors, safely away from your conscious. The beef, chicken, etc. that you buy from the store or restaurant had no chance to escape their fate. Wild animals that are hunted do, and they do so more often than not.
It's a shame to see what liberalism has done to this great country. It seems there is a great divide among our citizen's beliefs, pretty close to 50/50. We don't want to live under the liberal's rules and they don't want to live under ours. I think it would be a great idea to split the country at the Mississippi River and make the east a liberal country and the west a conservative country. I live in the east now but I would certainly move in a heartbeat. Once all the conservatives were gone, along with all our money that pays for all the liberal social programs, maybe liberals would wake up. Oh, who am I kidding, they still would not learn...
Liberty is the answer to the human condition. Keep the government small, answer to a higher power bigger than this world and mind your own business. If you have never left the big city in your life, you would do well to keep quiet on the wolf issue and any other matters you know nothing about beyond what you are being spoon fed. "
rpetersen wrote on Apr 15, 2008 9:56 AM:
crazy horse wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:01 AM:
EQUALITY4ALL wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:27 PM:
KILL...KILL...KILL
POLUTE POLUTE POLUTE
SMOKE SMOKE SMOKE
DRINK DRINK DRINK
"
doG wrote on Apr 17, 2008 5:44 AM:
donate my elk wrote on Apr 17, 2008 5:55 AM:
penitin30 wrote on Apr 18, 2008 10:09 AM:
saveourelk.com....and see first hand why these savages must be stopped!!! "
reading it all wrote on Apr 22, 2008 3:48 PM:
And it's always good to see the "ranchers" thrashing around trying to explain why their cattle get Welfare Checks while they run around in a big hat and boots pretending to be a cowboy. Now these fakes can fill their ample free time going out and playing hunter too.
Wyoming will destroy itself, and is already doing so. "
Wyoming Tree Hugger wrote on Apr 23, 2008 6:53 AM:
crazy horse wrote on Apr 23, 2008 8:58 AM:
Tguide wrote on Apr 23, 2008 3:37 PM:
wake up Wyo wrote on Apr 23, 2008 6:15 PM:
crazy horse does seem to have gotten it though--he repeated it all back verbatim. The "welfare checks" are another way of saying "government subsidy", and yes, every Wyoming "rancher" cashes those monthly green checks for his cows.
You boys need to get a job...just one between you oughta work out. "
Niles Y wrote on Apr 24, 2008 2:24 PM:
Already across the U.S. people like me are quietly expressing their distaste for a waste of federal dollars spent over the years on wolf reintroduction by cancelling travel plans to Wyoming.
The word is getting out and birders, hikers and all types of nature lovers (yes even out of state elk hunters) are going elsewhere to spend leisure dollars.
It's too bad Wyoming is run by welfare ranchers and gutless politicians.
Stand up Wyoming and save the tourist trade.
"
Tguide wrote on Apr 24, 2008 3:32 PM:
wolf hunter with a job wrote on Apr 24, 2008 6:43 PM:
Stand up Wyoming and save the working and ranching trade. "
semi-native wrote on Apr 25, 2008 8:02 AM:
crazy horse wrote on Apr 25, 2008 11:08 AM:
Rancher wrote on Apr 25, 2008 6:24 PM:
I do find it a bit unsettling that when I check our cows during calving at night that I must now carry some type of weapon in case I am attacked by a wolf or mountain lion, a problem that only a few years ago was unthinkable to those of us who live in rural America. I wish some of you that are so against farmers and ranches would spend a month in our shoes, maybe you would understand our way of life and realize that we aren't getting rich out here, we're here because we believe in a better way of life for our families and carrying on a way of life that was here long before big cities. I'm sorry that you see the people that supply your food as the villain, maybe the expected food shortages that seem to be looming will remind you that your boycott of beef and other farm products is what caused the high prices you are seeing at the gorcery store. Boycotting American grown meat and food is not the answer to bringing back wolves or any other endangered species. If your food is imported maybe you should check and see what chemicals that country is using on your food and if child labor is illegal there, as it is here. We operate under a lot of federal guidlines that many other countries don't, remember that when you buy your food. "
Wyo native wrote on Apr 26, 2008 12:19 AM:
PAM wrote on Apr 26, 2008 6:32 AM:
Sneaky wrote on Apr 26, 2008 10:59 AM:
The "welfare checks" are another way of saying "government subsidy", and yes, every Wyoming "rancher" cashes those monthly green checks for his cows.
"
Sneaky wrote on Apr 26, 2008 11:30 AM:
"why were native Wolves, Bison ,Grizzlies, Beaver, Bald Eagles, Prairie Dogs et al hunted to extinction , and Elk , Deer, and Antelope almost killed off , if not so Ranchers could take over Wyoming's open spaces as their own landed aristochratic fiefdoms ?
It is simple to accuse the rancher trying to kill all of these animals but it is not that simple.
Certainly, the agricultural community played a significant role in reducing the populations of these animals. However, the ranchers eradication efforts were mostly focused on removal of predators and prairie dogs. The decline in buffalo, elk, deer and antelope populations resulted mostly from hunting fro meat, hides and sport.
It must be noted that aside from the prairie dogs the decline in wildlife populations occurred in the late 1800's during the period of US expansion. Many of these acts were justified by societies values and the state of the science at the time.
Remember, during this period society was demanding supplies of minerals, grain, meat and animal products that could not be provided in the eastern states. Therefore the government and society was encouraging the settlement of the western states to provide these resources so the society could grow. In order to provide the supplies of meat and other resources needed for our nation predator the predator populations needed to be reduced.
Few people at the time envisioned the consequences of these actions on the environment at the time. Thankfully, there were some individuals who had the foresight to save the bison and take action that allowed populations of wildlife to recover from the effects of undiscriminate harvest.
It is easy to sit back in our easy chairs with our belly full of tofu and condemn earlier generations for their sins. However, it is wrong to use the values and knowledge of todays"s society to evaluate the actions of previous generations.
The current generation of farmers and ranchers could not produce the food and fiber needed by our population if the wildlife populations were at the same levels they were when the Nation was founded.
Just a few thoughts for your entertainment.
"
Sneaky wrote on Apr 26, 2008 11:42 AM:
Why should the U.S. and state governments spend billions of dollars to subsidize the recreational community?
Why do recreationalists have free use of public lands when other users are forced to pays fees for such use? "
wyogirl wrote on Apr 28, 2008 2:06 PM:
S Clemens wrote on Apr 28, 2008 3:02 PM:
lonely? Does she mourn over the extinguished council-fires of her race,
and the vanished glory of her ancestors? Or does her sad spirit wander
afar toward the hunting-grounds whither her brave
Gobbler-of-the-Lightnings is gone? Why is my daughter silent? Has she
aught against the paleface stranger?"
"
bombgirl wrote on Apr 28, 2008 4:59 PM:
bombgirl wrote on Apr 28, 2008 5:42 PM:
I hope to see the wolf re-listed and protected again soon. "
Kathy M wrote on Apr 28, 2008 9:27 PM:
peek wrote on Apr 29, 2008 1:22 AM:
may GOD have mercy on all ypu heartless people. teachiong kids its ok to kill what u don't undertstand. "
Over it... wrote on Apr 29, 2008 10:06 PM:
As a Wyo Outfitter with full camps and solid bookings thru 2010. I can assure you that non resident hunters are still more than eager to hunt here. Abundant elk and deer herds will assure this opportunity. Wolf management is a must. Kill one wolf save 100 elk!
Wyoming will continue to manage its wolves regardless of their status.
Wyoming will thrive without you. "
brock wrote on Apr 29, 2008 11:07 PM:
wolf hating red neck wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:08 AM:
Over it,
you hit the nail on the head good comments. "
wolfhunter wrote on Apr 30, 2008 5:54 PM:
Go ahead and bash the rancher and the farmer....You think 5 dollar fuel hurts our economy wait until you rancher bashers get your way and our cities have to import all of the hamburgers.........Your to stupid to figure that out aren't you!!!!!! What kind of PRAGMATIC THINKING TO OUR FUTURE IS THAT?????
You should ask the town of Jasper in Canada how many less tourists come to the National Park now that there wildlife populations have been brought below sustainable levels due to WOLF PREDATION. YOU STUPID BITTY........You think because there is a wolf in the wild we have restored things to a balance WRONG....Things are really not capable of Balance with all the people that are moving here like you..............GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM.....
Go ahead a re-list the wolves it won't change things in my back yard..BANG... "
Over it... wrote on Apr 30, 2008 8:32 PM:
That number WILL decrease within the next week or two if I have anything to say about it. Bang.. Bang! "
bombgirl wrote on May 1, 2008 3:54 PM:
This shoot-on-sight policy the state has implemented is pure lunacy though. We are not talking about a wolf hunting season where people buy Conservation stamps and liscenses and can only hunt for a few weeks out of the year. This is full scale slaughter. Wolves should be protected in this state. This debacle makes us look bad as a state. Wyoming should care what other states think, we are part of the "United" States and people from other states have every right to comment on our policies especially ones that are so crazy.
BTW I don't have to worry about importing hamburger because I don't eat them or any other beef product.
Talk to Ya Later You Big Bad Ol' Wold Hunter "
crazy horse wrote on May 2, 2008 9:18 AM:
bombgirl wrote on May 6, 2008 2:59 PM:
However, I am AGAINST this wolf program. I would like to see more wolves in Wyoming not less. I don't see why wolves could not be in other areas where they would have traditionally been including National Forests and the like. The main argument against allowing wolves out of Yellowstone National Park seems to me to be that they eat sheep, calves and the occasional dog. A point I concede although not in the numbers some people are claiming in these posts.There are several programs out there to compensate ranchers who have losses due to wolves including one through the State Game and Fish. So to me that mitigates any claims agriculturists have that wolves in the area are causing them an unreasonable financial hit. The average number of wolf domestic animal kills per year since the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone is 62.6 (that's assuming all the kills were Wolf related and includes cattle, sheep, horses and dogs.) That is according to the Game and Fish Wolf Management Plan numbers.
I do not think it appropriate to classify wolves as trophy animals or they will eventually all be gone outside the park. 15 breeding pairs is all the plan has agreed to maintain (this includes all of Wyoming, including YNP). So the end result would be 30 lonely wolves in this state.
Not a viable wolf population. "
crazy horse wrote on May 7, 2008 8:36 AM:
Fluorite wrote on May 24, 2008 6:14 PM:
...Wow. If that's not a perfect example of an overzealous extremist trying to start a fire then I don't know what is.
So shooting a three-legged, elderly dog is something to be praised for? Honestly, I lose more faith in the rationality and moral fiber of people everyday. I'd read more of the comments on this post, but the astounding ignorance, reckless provocation, and atrocious grammar are simply too much for me to take.
I thought that we were supposed to be adults.
"
Amy Kysar wrote on Feb 11, 2009 8:29 AM:
Jo wrote on Feb 11, 2009 8:38 AM:
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