Casper Star-Tribune Online

Advanced Search

Council cans new noise ordinance

Story Tools

Print this story

E-mail this story

Rate this story

Text Size

Share This Story:

trib.popular

By CHRISTINE ROBINSON
Star-Tribune staff writer

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 10:05 AM MDT

A proposed noise ordinance is on the "back burner" after scores of motorcyclists flooded the Casper City Council chambers on Tuesday.

The council voted unanimously and to a raucous applause to table the proposed change to a noise ordinance, which means it will not be discussed again unless a council member brings it back.

The proposed change read:

"No person shall operate any motor vehicle in the city in such a manner that the public's attention is drawn to the noise created by the motor vehicle."

Motorcyclists and the council plan to work together to help solve "irresponsible riding" through residential neighborhoods, both groups agreed.

One biker after another spoke before the council to testify about how "loud pipes save lives."

David Brewbaker, a Casper motorcyclist, told the council, "I would rather be heard and be a nuisance in someone's ears than flattened like a pancake due to someone's negligence."

Loud pipes keep drivers aware of bikers and prevent accidents, said Jim Siri, a member of Wyoming Central A.B.A.T.E., a motorcycle advocacy group. Many things distract drivers, and if they aren't paying attention they won't always see motorcyclists, but they may still hear them.

Abuse of a motorcycle on city streets is unacceptable, but motorcyclists also don't want to be unfairly targeted, said Russ Reddick, vice-president of Wyoming State A.B.A.T.E. and co-director of the National Coalition of Motorcyclists in region three.

He wants to educate riders on how to ride respectively and also educate drivers on how to be more aware of motorcyclists.

Some council members ultimately said the proposed ordinance would not be enforceable the way it read.

What the council wanted, said Council member Paul Bertoglio, was for the community to have a discussion about loud bikes riding through town in the middle of the night.

"The riders in Casper got the message that there's a problem out there," Bertoglio said. "What we have accomplished tonight is more than what we would accomplish with words on paper."

Council members said they hope to work with riders and associations like Wyoming State A.B.A.T.E.

"It's up to us to deal with this," Siri shouted back toward the crowd of motorcyclists after the meeting.

To keep the proposed ordinance from coming back to a vote, he said, the groups need to work together.

Contact city reporter Christine Robinson at (307) 266-0639 or christine.robinson@trib.com


Casper briefs		Business incubator will dominate Platte Commons

Article Rating

Reader Comments

There are 103 comment(s)

Comments to this story.

Should have passed wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:53 AM:

" Man o man, you wussies up north. I can only hope this gets some attention here in Cheyenne. It's truly a nuisance and I have yet to ever see any statistics that prove out that loud pipes save lives. What a joke. Maybe there needs to be some accountability on the part of the riders - slow down and less weaving. Loud pipes don't solve anything. Watch any motorcycle special/documentary and you'll realize it's all about the noise. The next thing you know, people will be saying loud bass/music saves lives. "

Helmut wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:55 AM:

" So loud pipes save lives? I can see the merit in that statement. But if these bikers are so concerned with safety why don't they wear helmets???? "

Online Reader wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:01 PM:

" This sounds like the 2 week solution. "

Almost Deaf wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:08 PM:

" What a crock. Our wonderful city council knuckles when a bunch of bikers show up. Indimitated, perhaps? If their arguement is valid, then I should remove the muffler from my small car as a safety feature also and not get ticketed. As far as that goes, no one should be ticketed in this town for any vehicle noise. "

Robin A wrote on Oct 8, 2008 1:38 PM:

" As a fellow driver, I would perfer to hear them before I see them. When I can hear a motorcycle I pay way more atention to where they are. "

Clem wrote on Oct 8, 2008 2:00 PM:

" What about the maggots with the loud, obnoxious stereos. Do they continue to get a free pass? "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 8, 2008 2:42 PM:

" To "Should have passed" I take it that you don't ride a motorcycle.You mention that riders should "slow down and less weaving" Do you have any idea at all why a motorcycle would be weaving? Perhaps to miss a possible hazard in the road that you don't see, closed up in your cage on wheels. Part of the reason I ride is the manuverability of the bike. It has save my life more than once, where had I been in a car, there would have been a collision.
Now on to "Helmut" I prefer not to wear a helmet because it restricts my hearing and visibilty. Wearing a helmet does not make you a safer rider or even a safe rider. Even the top helmet manufacturers will not guarantee their products above 15mph. They can and do save lives, but having been in collisions with and without a helmet, I can tell you from my experience only, that I would have been better off with it on my butt. If you don't buy my arguement that they restrict vision & hearing, it is illegal in Wyoming to wear a safety helmet in an automobile for those very reasons. Back to "Should have passed" On more than one occasion, I have stopped a car from taking my lane while I was in it by.....MAKING THEM HEAR ME!!! Without any actual riding experience of your own to go by, you don't know what you are talking about "

Russ Reddick wrote on Oct 8, 2008 3:43 PM:

" the city council did well, hurray for the bikers of Casper, as well as those that travel through Casper.
now the work begins.

and for you naysayers, the motorcyclist in casper were the ONLY people that spoke in favor of an ordinance amendment, as long as it was fair and unbiased, worded proprely and targeted unlawful behavior. ABATE supplied the city council with the best information on the subject and proved thier point. the city council made a good decision.
the council was not scared by bikers, and there is proof loudpipes save lives, just ask the Oakland police department. helmets only work during an accident and hinder accident avoidance ie/sight and hearing. i'd rather not get into an accident without a helmet, than get into an accident with one on= and your way off subject on that one. if you wanted to have a say in the council's decision you should have been at the council meeting. they are open to the public.

"Get up , Stand Up, Stand up for your Rights. " "

Lee wrote on Oct 8, 2008 3:49 PM:

" You all make it sound like every person that rides a bike is an irrisponsible rabile rouser. My boyfriend and I have riden for years and so have my parents.We are all norman everyday people that enjoy riding. You do worry about wether or not a person in a car sees you. Many motorcycle accidents are caused because someone in a car didn't notice them. I live in a part of Wyoming that is close to Sturgis and it does help when you can here motorcycle coming when you are in a car. When a car comes up on you you can see them alot of times you don't notice a bike until you hear them. "

FedUp wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:23 PM:

" I have been riding for many more years than I care to admit to, my bike makes a little noise but is not loud by any stretch. But.....it makes enough noise to get the attention of all of these folks who prefer to text and talk on the cell phone rather than focus their attention on driving. If you want to ban my pipes for being a little noisy, the damned sure need to ban cell phones from the idiots who refuse to look out for others. My pipes have never caused a wreck.........the same can not be said for phone users. "

Merry wrote on Oct 8, 2008 6:53 PM:

" For Pete's Sakes! Screaming up residential streets going 50+ on crotch rocket bikes saves lives? Revvng their engines with the loud pipes while sitting at stop lights saves lives?
You have to drive defensively in this town - whether you're on a bike or in a car - people just don't care anymore.
Even if the ordinance would be passed, fear not - the Police wouldn't issue any citations anyway, they can't seem to stop those that speed and run red lights, what makes you think they would take the time to pull over a loud bike? "

get real wrote on Oct 9, 2008 12:39 AM:

" If it takes loud noise for riding a bike to be safe then OUTLAW BIKES WITHIN THE CITY OF CASPER! I do NOT want to listen to the loud noise. I have a right to quiet. Riders may claim that they have a right to ride ----but only if they are quiet. Plus most riders in casper are just white trash any way, which we would be great if they left town. "

Bob wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:00 AM:

" Loud pipes are nothing more than loud pipes, just like the idiots in their diesel trucks that do nothing more than make noise and blow big clouds of nasty smoke. They need to do something about all of you people that think it is your God given right to annoy everyone else. The city council is nothing but a bunch of wimps afraid to take a stand and actually represent their wards. "

Phil Jones wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:25 AM:

" I am an avid rider and active member of Harley Owners Group. I also have LOUD pipes! As far as all of you complaining about the noise...I too think the noise is obnoxious and disturbing, simply because it is an Abused privelage by the rider. Maybe the agrument of "Loud Pipes Save Lives" would have held more weight 15-20 years ago, but unfortunately drivers today (most bikers included) are less aware of their surroundings. Most of them can't even hear a Fire Truck coming up behind them. It's not just the bikers either, there are alot of other vehicles out there with altered or obnoxiouly loud exhaust. We as a community need to target the noisy and irresponsible drivers of ALL these vehicles and NOT just the motorcyclists. As a Harley owner I can say that at our meetings and events we are always preaching responsible riding techniques as well as "Throttle Down, When in Town". Ultimately, driver education is the key factor here, not trying to blame any one group. I agree with Russ Reddick of ABATE. We definately have an issue that needs to be addressed and corrected. But realisticly folks....lets work to solve the problem not just put a band-aid on a bigger issue. Just so you all know.....I was recently involved in a motorcycle accident where the other driver hit me and guess what. The LOUD Pipes didn't matter one bit. Yes, I was riding responsibly only doing 25mph and in proper lane position. It's all about AWARENESS and REPONSIBILITY. "

biker babe 24 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:41 AM:

" umm ya loud pipes do save lives i have seen it with my own eyes so "shouldve passed" maybe in cheyenne but not here im excited that i can still have loud pipes on my harley amd ride around n not get cut off by some one again thanks to my loud pipes "

James wrote on Oct 9, 2008 1:12 PM:

" So they caved in the face of opposition on sight. Moral cowards is all they are.

How about respecting the peace and privacy of others?

All of us understand necessary loud sounds from construction and so on.

Unnecessary, man made noise created solely to draw attention, needs to be controlled.

If idiots with thump-thump stereos and loud pipe are unable to control their childish impulses, then the law must regulate their behavior to protect the rights of others that don't want to hear these children's attempt to draw attention to themselves. "

OR ABATE wrote on Oct 9, 2008 1:22 PM:

" I just love how the people that complain the most about a law not passing weren't there to make it pass! Stand Up or be Stood On. Way to go Russ, and all you others that showed up and took an interest in your rights, and working with your community. "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 9, 2008 2:17 PM:

" It's easy to see the ones here who aren't riders. 'Shouldhavepassed, Helmut, almostdeaf, Merry, Bob & most of all get real' - you all really don't know what you are talking about. Everyone here is saying there does need to be more responsible riding, the screaming crotch rockets at 1am is NOT okay. But a driver, not paying attention, taking your lane away from you because they don't know you are there, can be deadly for biker and a fender bender for a car, helmet or not. To compare the two is assinine. There are alot responsible riders out there who enjoying a freedom you don't understand, and 'get real' your notion that all riders are white trash just shows your ignorance of what motorcycling is all about.
Russ, there is alot of work and getting the awareness out to these people who really don't care or understand what this really is all about. I'm sorry I missed the mtg. "

Hamilton wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:04 PM:

" LadyRider when you and your buddies respect my right to listen to the radio in my car at a stop light, which I cannot hear over your fun exhaust, I may listen to you. But since that won't happen as you cannot control all of your well mannered friends, we need a law that punishes those that don't give one d_mn about my peaceful enjoyment. "

OtherNoise wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:19 PM:

" YOU LIVE IN A CITY, PEOPLE. Move to the sticks if you hate noise. Maybe we should ban Life Flight since it's loud and obnoxious. "

hmmm wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:22 PM:

" Sounds like Giantss needs to learn to drive. that many close calls and still feeling safer on a bike? Brain damage, seen it before! "

Useless wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:37 PM:

" Great, a bunch of dirty, ignorant thugs shows up and our elected officials all wet their drawers. Useless. Absolutely useless. "

Jammorg wrote on Oct 9, 2008 6:00 PM:

" I live downtown and I am one of those people who are tired of the loud noises from motorcycles AND cars. Any weekend night down here is a free-for-all for those who seek to prove that they are louder than the guy behind them or across the street and think that the rest of us want to be entertained by the noise they produce. I don't mind that the bikers think that their loud pipes remind people that they are there when out on the street but I'm telling you, from personal experiences, that a large amount of time is spent by these same people at stoplights revving those pipes in some sort of bizarre tribal language to each other. If using a loud noise is beneficial to letting other people on the road know that you are there in order to avoid getting in an accident, why not just buy a horn and install it on the bike then???? You'll have your loud noise to feel safe with and we'll have some peace and quiet.......now if we can just figure out how to deal with the moronic jackasses on their PowerRanger crotch rockets who weave in and out of traffic lanes because they think that they are invincible....... "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:38 PM:

" Jammorg, I agree with you, there is alot of noise abuse of all kinds out there and as long as this ordinance doesn't single out motorcycles, I'm all for it. I want to get rid of the thumping stereos that you can hear over your TV, rattling the windows in your house. But we have to draw a line somewhere between safety and abuse.
And my bike does have a horn, i've had to use it, I've had to flash my brights for people who pull out in front me, flash brake lights to keep people from running into the back of me, people just don't see bikes.

As the article say "David Brewbaker, a Casper motorcyclist, told the council, "I would rather be heard and be a nuisance in someone's ears than flattened like a pancake due to someone's negligence." He speaks for every rider out there.

And the crotch rockets, well, they are just makin us all look bad.

And Hamilton, you can listen to me and you'll know I'm there. Point made. "

TomT wrote on Oct 9, 2008 9:52 PM:

" The council let us down on this one. They heard from a tiny fraction of the biker population which are not the problem bikers anyway. Every evening all summer long, especially on weekends, the "crotch rockets" scream along outer drive, and you can hear it 20 blocks away. THOSE bikers were not at the city council meeting promising to do better, so nothing was solved.
As for the bikers who were at the meeting, if they aren't part of the noise problem themselves, why are they there begging for the council to do nothing about noise? Once again,, the council had an opportunity to fix this and they failed to act. "

Phil Jones wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:15 PM:

" I am seeing alot of posts directed completely away from the base issue here. My opinion, instead of putting all of this focus on motorcyclists, why don't we look at the real issue here. Simply put......it's about the excess noises created by altered or modified vehicle exhaust, Loud stereo's and such.

This will include, Motorcycles, ATV's, Cars and diesel pickup's. All of these are the subject of scrutiny.

Plain and Simple folks, the bottom line of the issue here is the noise being generated by irresponsible drivers attempting to show us what they think is "COOL". As I stated in my previous post, I too am a Harley rider and yes I have Loud Pipes. But when I ride I do it with courtesy and respect for the community by NOT reving my engine and hotrodding through town.

If people choose to modify ther vehicle in such a manner as to create loud noise, then they need to be taught that there is a place and a time for that noise. This is not while racing through our city streets. Not only is this a hazzard to fellow drivers as well as an annoyance to the citizens but it is also a distraction to the driver being irresponsible in the respect that that driver is concentrating on the noise they can make and not the people they are affecting in a negative manner.

I for one do not appreciate the noises generated by loud stereo's or exhaust when people come racing through my neighborhood at night and being a public nuscance.

If we are to do somthing as a community to solve this problem , we all need to be level headed and focus on the main issue. Calling names and pointing fingers will never get us anywhere but more angry at eachother.

I am more than willing to help solve this issue in a way that will not comprimise the rights of all of us.

If you have a reasonable idea or some positive insight, I am willing to listen and see what we can come up with for a solution that would be presentable to our City Council and our community.

I can be emailed at pjonesofhog@gmail.com "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 10, 2008 5:21 AM:

" Useless, you sure picked the right name. For your information, I have had a lot of close calls because I have been riding for 0ver 25 years, that plus I drove commercially, with over two million miles under my belt, so I could say I have forgotten more about driving than you will ever know. And yes. I do have some brain damage, from a nosepicker like you that didn't see me on my bike and made a right turn from the left lane in front of me and flipped me three times across the intersection. This was before cell phone drivers, but she was having a lovely time putting on her makeup.
Now lets get on to "Get real" "Most riders in Casper are white trash" Wow! I'm not even sure exactly how to respond to that level of ignorance. I don't think I can pull myself down to your level, so I will just not even try. "

Scared Too Many Times wrote on Oct 10, 2008 9:13 AM:

" If you don't think loud pipes save lives, you must not be the driver of a pickup that made a left turn into the far lane of Wyoming Boulevard - completely oblivious to the fact that it was already occupied by a motorcycle. The operator of the bike saw what was happening and revved our LOUD bike. You should have seen the look on the pickup driver's face! HE HAD NOT REALIZED WE WERE THERE! Why? Not because we were invisible, but because he wasn't looking for anything less than four wheels. In the motorcycle class provided by the State of Wyoming we were taught that we need to assume we are invisible to 90 percent of the other vehicles on the road, and the other 10 percent are out to get you. If you don't see a motorcycle with its headlight on as required by law, it seems that the only option we have to draw your attention is noise.

I don't appreciate the folks who like to ride all night and make noise for fun only, either. I like to sleep with the windows open in the summer, and when I am awakened at 2:00 in the morning because someone feels the need to see how much noise he can make, it ticks me off. But the noise I find really hard to deal with is the guy with the subwoofer, kicker, whatever that vebrates my brain in my skull from a block away. I like loud music too, but those things cause me pain and anxiety - AND - it's NOT doing anything for anyone's safety. Let's look at controlling THAT! "

STMT wrote on Oct 10, 2008 9:24 AM:

" Wow! I'm not even sure exactly how to respond to that level of ignorance. I don't think I can pull myself down to your level, so I will just not even try. "

I was so taken aback by the postings of "get real" and "useless" that I'm at a loss for words. I find it difficult to accept that we have people with that kind of opinion of other human beings or that they have the nerve to write it - well, I guess they do have the protection of a made-up identity and the printed word to hide behind. Talk about WIMPS! You go GiantSS! "

Jack wrote on Oct 10, 2008 10:00 AM:

" Time to get rid of most of the city council. They are a bunch of shortsighted, thickheaded people who really do not have any better ideas than anyone else about running a city. Their votes are easily swayed by the most ignorant and groundless arguments. Just vote them out and get new people, and try to insist that all new candidates in the future must meet a minimum IQ test level. Just average, that's all. "

Rebel wrote on Oct 10, 2008 10:38 AM:

" I love the out look that allot have towards bikers. All bikers are trash and no good. The ones that say that have no idea what the hell their saying. You would be amazed at who rides, your doctor, lawyers, CEO's, and the list goes on. Before people start pointing fingers and stereo typeing you should educate your self first. As for the load pipes, well the ones that end up being a nuisance are the people makeing them that way. You can ride any bike and ride it with a noise level with in reason or you can make it load. Load pipes do save lives. If you don't ride then you can't sit here and say they don't. Once again uneducate people makeing comments that they should have gotten more information on before hand. And well as for peoples rights well those with load pipes have the right to have them just like your right to quite. This is America if you don't like all people haveing rights them leave. "

TomT wrote on Oct 10, 2008 11:27 AM:

" I plan to vote out the incumbents when possible.
This thing about the loud bikers justifying their loud vehicles for 'safety' reasons is pretty thin. If vehicles need to be "loud" to be safe, we should remove mufllers off of everything out there. The city council should pass a law that it is illegal to drive a QUIET motorcycle or ATV, and they should require some type of added noisemakers on bicycles and pedestrians.
So they are making the argument that for safety reasons, the smaller the vehicle, the louder it should be. And the city council fell for this.
I say that the city council and the bikers have it backwards: They are asking all us non-bikers to suffer for their noisy hobby.
None of this solves the additional problems of loud crotch rockets, or loud stereos, or noisy "ricer" cars. "

Phil Jones wrote on Oct 10, 2008 12:14 PM:

" I'd run for City Council if I Thought I'd get voted in. but it is apparent that most folks won't vote for someone who isn't affraid to make changes and set examples. "

FedUp wrote on Oct 10, 2008 1:27 PM:

" Useless and get real want to rid the noise from the vehicles on the street so their cell phone calls and texting will not be disturbed. I do know that the majority, not all, of motorcyclists are friendly and responsible operators. We do not get lost in our phone calls, putting make up on or even reading a book as I see on a daily basis going to work. Since these folks do not have the decency to watch for us, it is up to us to make sure they become aware of us BEFORE we hit the side of their vehicle. My neighbors little sports car with its modified pipes is much louder than my bike will ever be.....so I guess Mazda's are next. "

KMAINWY wrote on Oct 11, 2008 10:21 AM:

" Don'tch just love the creshendo of an in-your-face, politically incorrect open-pipe Harley next to someone yapping on a cell phone. "

Ukin wrote on Oct 11, 2008 12:41 PM:

" We hear it all the time when a car hits a bike or pulls out in front of one "I didn't see him" is the all too familiar cry. Probably cos he/she was on the cell phone at the time, or changing the cd. Like others have said, I want you to HEAR me coming because most are to wrapped up in doing other things than to SEE me coming. "

FreedomLover wrote on Oct 11, 2008 12:57 PM:

" Over in Oakland, all 45 of the Police Department’s Harley-Davidson motorcycles have been equipped with shiny new tailpipes, at a cost of $500 apiece, to rev up their roar. It seems the cops just didn’t feel safe on toned-down bikes. “There’s an old motorcycle adage that you are heard before you are seen,” said Deputy Chief Dave Kozicki, explaining the department’s decision to toss the bikes’ muted factory-issued mufflers in favor of the more high-volume pipes.

...after everything was taken into consideration, the department concluded “it was in the best interest of the officers to put more-audible pipes back on,” Kozicki said.

I have seen loud pipes save lives on more than one occasion!

Consider this (and be honest): Have you ever been driving, changing lanes etc, and in an instant there was an obstacle in your way that you missed by a nano second (or maybe you didn't miss it). Whether is was an animal, another vehicle or person?
Have you ever started to make a lane change, thinking it is clear, only to have someone honk their horn or rev their engine and stop you from running into them because they were in your blind spot or you just weren't paying attention?

That is the purpose of loud pipes. There is a need for education and responsibility and not just for riders. Contact your local A.B.A.T.E. and go to a meeting. You will hear a message and education to all members to ride responsible and safe. (this means responsibility not to abuse loud pipes as well as not being reckless).

Maybe those who chose to table this, had more insight to the fact that there does need to be more education rather than taking away a safety device that has saved lives.

And for the comment that all riders are white trash... guess the law enforcement officers that ride bikes and put their lives on the line for you everyday are just white trash too? You do need education! "

RedRider wrote on Oct 11, 2008 1:51 PM:

" ya got my vote Phil! should i write ya in?

alot of the comments here are very disturbing.
not all bikes are "loud" and almost all "loud bikes" have epa approved mufflers. so a bike is not being abused on the street, and it does have an epa approved muffler and is still pulled over for being loud....what then????
see where im going with this??
and as far a rideing a motorcycle as a hobby....not me. it is my primary form of transportation.it is my licensed and legal road vehicle. rain, sleet or snow, im rideing my motor cycle in it! sometimes its a bummer, but a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do. and i wouldnt have it any other way! "

get real wrote on Oct 11, 2008 2:45 PM:

" I do not use my cell phone when I drive. I stand bt my comment that most (not all) bike riders are just white trash in Casper. (of course most people in Casper are white trash)

Other areas have banned bikes. We should do the same in casper. "

rider wrote on Oct 11, 2008 5:46 PM:

" As someone who has ridden for years it is true the crotchrocketeers who scream around town late at night should be taught to ride with courtesy and consideration, but then again that would be picking on them.

getreal...when you decide to leave town with your buddies the bikers in town will be glad to give you an escort. The white trash reference seems to fit you perfectly.

So you getreal and jack can join together and see if you can add your two IQ's to make enough to order a happy meal with your one consolidated mind. Because based on jacks off based comment he won't be able to run for office due to his lack of IQ. "

TomT wrote on Oct 11, 2008 6:56 PM:

" This isn't really a biker vs. non-biker issue. Some of us had hoped the city council would pass an ordinance against obnoxious or excessive noise, but then the big bike people interrupted that and sold the city council on their idea. Because of that, there is some resentment because the big bikers were not the noise problem in the first place, and now they prevented the rest of us from having any hope of an enforced peace and quiet. They overreacted and thought they were being targeted so they stormed city hall enmasse and made their voices heard. So now I ask you, which of you bikers will give me your phone number so I can call you with my noise complaints late at night? "

Tommy wrote on Oct 12, 2008 6:17 AM:

" The council is a bunch of whoosies Stand up for the community- "

05chop wrote on Oct 12, 2008 9:01 AM:

" I have seen how people in casper and cheyenne drive with no respect to motorcycles.Riding a bike now days is takes a lot of expert driving technics from us.I dont trust anyone in a cage while im on my bikes.Whats the first thing you say when involed in an accident? I know I didnt see him on the motorcycle.Loud pipes do save lives. "

Fan of Russ wrote on Oct 12, 2008 10:47 AM:

" The motorcyclists who showed up for the meeting were supporting the city council, not protesting them. Too bad none of you could see the whole meeting and the media showed you what they wanted you to see. Education and respect is needed, not bashing each other. Those who ride motorcycles are friends and families and are human beings. Have some manners. "

Inky wrote on Oct 12, 2008 12:12 PM:

" No situation is so good, for so many, that a few can't ruin it for all.
That truism aside, I have seen 15 motorcyclists roar down my street, with the leaders popping wheelies. I frequently hear a motorcycle make the turn from a main drag a few blocks away and accelerate so quickly and loudly that they have to be approaching 70 mph at my house, which is zone for 30 mph. Just around the corner, a young man with a crotch rocket would warm up his engine promptly at 6 a.m., every morning, with ear-splitting Vroooooms. (Haven't heard anything lately, meaning he got a new job, moved or ate a tree.)
Logically, I understand there are responsible, reasonably quite riders, but when someone rips by my house at 2 a.m. full blast, I get angry.
Oh well, young and stupid is a self-correcting situation -- they either wise up and slow down, or wreck. Too bad they often take innocents with them. "

P Jones wrote on Oct 12, 2008 7:28 PM:

" There have been several posts refering to bikers as "white trash"! Well, here's some food for thought....Those you are calssifying as "white trash" might just be the Doctor who helped you in a time of need or the Lawyer who got you out of a legal jam or your local mechanic who repaired your poorly maintained vehicle with the loud stereo or noisy muffler. So PLEASE folks........before you start pointing fingers and calling names, THINK about what you are saying. Remember, we are NOT all perfect but we are a community and it is easier to work together to solve a problem than to create a bigger one.
It's not just the bikers causing the problem either, It is a wide range of people. "

get real wrote on Oct 12, 2008 10:15 PM:

" People(bikers/car or truck drivers) with any class do NOT make a lot of noise on purpose. It is inappropriate behavior-period. White trash in Casper think that the loud noise is acceptable behavior---it is NOT. "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 13, 2008 3:18 AM:

" Hey, did anyone happen to notice the editorial garbage that was posted yesterday that is now not there? I can't find the article, but it was an editorial post entitled "Loud Pipes Not a Safety Issue" or soemthing close to that. ANd alot of people who have posted here posted to that one also. I was so shocked that the paper could be that irresponsible to print such such a biased article without getting all their facts. It's argument against loud pipes was actually poorly supported and the ignorance that followed was just as bad. Some idiot was even going as far as to start throwing rocks. I'm glad the paper pulled the article as it only fueled the ignorance. I don't care what anyone believes, I know my louder pipes have saved my life a time or two. ANd for those of you who make the comparison for taking off all mufflers on cars, you just don't get it. There's a huge difference from hitting a car that you didn't hear and hitting a motorcycle you didn't know was there! Come on, people, think about what you are saying. Everyone agrees that the noise levels need to be addressed, but you can not isolate motorcycles. There can be happy medium here.

And by the way, I am not white trash nor are any of my many, many friends who also ride, and their parents who ride, and the business owners & other professionals, and all around great people of this town. Nor do any of us sit at a light and disrespectfully rev up our engines and run 70mph thru neighborhoods at 1am.
People, stop making such broad erroneous generalizations to support your uneducated views. "

TomT wrote on Oct 13, 2008 6:53 AM:

" I think it's funny to pull up behind a Harley at a stop light. While everyone is sitting there waiting for the light to change, the Harley driver will "pop" the throttle just to make noise. They do it about 90% of the time. My wife and I have fun with it, taking bets on how many times they are going to do it. Then, on a rare occasion when they don't do it, we know they are beginner bikers who haven't learned to be noisy yet.
As for the safety argument that is going to come, why in the heck would someone need to make noise while sitting in traffic waiting on the light to change? "

Get OVER it wrote on Oct 13, 2008 10:50 AM:

" How many of you whiny little babies showed up at the meeting to defend the ordinance? Maybe if you would've shown up instead of just waiting around to see what happened the council would have made a different decision. If you're not involved you have absolutley NO right to complain or blame it on the council members, next time maybe show up and it will turn out your way "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 13, 2008 2:22 PM:

" "Get real" you do need to get real. Just what is your basis for calling most bikers white trash? What is the criteria that you use to make the determination, and just your opinion won't cut it. Be specific. The last time I looked, most white trash couldn't afford a motorcycle starts at $15K and goes way up from there, with some of the very high end bikes going for $250K. Your ignorance is overwhelming to say the least.
"Tom T" Why do you assume that a harley rider pops the throttle just to make noise. Do you have a lot of riding experience on one? I do it because when setting at a light, your motor has a tendancy to load up and the plugs start to foul, so you need to do that to clean them out. I'm sure that there ar alot that do it to make some noise. I don't. Sometimes I pop the throttle, sometimes I don't, it depends on how the bike is running. As far as bikers storming the City Council, people such as yourself with an opposing point of view, had the same opportunity to get your people there enmasse. Why didn't you do it? Is it easier to just complain about it in the paper? "

CommonSensical wrote on Oct 13, 2008 4:31 PM:

" I like that bikers claim that loud pipes make them safe, but so few wear helmets, and, in fact, ADAMANTLY fight helmet legislation. I believe any biker that refuses to wear a helmet should be required to sign an organ and tissue donor card, since they won't be good for much else when (not if, but when) they DO get into an accident. I digress, however: I really wouldn't mind the loud pipes if they were respectful "after hours." I can't count the number of times I was ripped from sleep just this summer by motorcycles racing down the street (and by racing, I mean more than one, doing wheelies, for hours on end). "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 13, 2008 4:58 PM:

" Get Real - why don't you educate yourself before you speak again, you have no clue what you are talking about. You've not heard a word we've said. We are not condoning all loud noises. Go back and reread and use some "get real" attention.
Furthermore, attend a rally, one right here in Casper next summer and you'll see how wrong you truely are. "

TomT wrote on Oct 13, 2008 8:01 PM:

" If I paid big $$$ for a bike, I would get one that was reliable enough that that does not "load up". With electronic ignition and EFI, how can this be possible? Sounds like another thin excuse to make noise. IF YOU WOULD QUIETEN THE BIKES DOWN none of this would be an issue. You want to do exactly as you wish, any way you wish, and are in effect telling the world to get used to it.
As for showing up for the meeting, the law was on track to be passed until you guys showed up crying, and the council knuckled under. They caved in to a tiny minority of citizens, and they knew it.
I used to think the bikers were an equal out on the road but you guys obviously put yourselves on a pedestal. You want to pursue your hobby no matter how much it burdens the rest of us, and don't want to give a single inch. You want to play dress up and ride a bike? Fine, no more will I give way to bikers. Next time you look in your mirror at the stop light, i'm going to be the guy that is parked 6" from your rear fender, or the guy who crowds you back when you decide to make your own traffic rules. Like I said earlier, this city ordinance was never about big bikes, but by the way you bully the council then come here and bully us, you no longer get a pass with me. Welcome to the world you created. "

get real wrote on Oct 14, 2008 9:55 AM:

" To "ladyrider"..."we are not condoning all loud noises"----you are just condoning loud noises from bikes------oh, I guess bike riders think that they are just SO special.

I still say outlaw bikes from the city limits in Casper. "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 14, 2008 10:42 AM:

" TomT - shows how much you care or know of the law. I guess your rights are more important than ours. But you cause a crash of bike, that rider's blood is on your hands, and the law is specific about it. TomT - we are equal and we also have a right to be safe from people who don't care, and who are a threat to us. Why don't you give us your number so we can call you at night, the same right you think you have. Maybe if you were a rider you would understand. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 14, 2008 10:44 AM:

" Tom T, My bike is plenty reliable. In the last twenty five years I have put mor miles on it than you have on your car. Doesn't have EFI or electronic ignition, so that is how it's possible to load up. Once again, another non rider that doesn't know squat about bikes is running his yap. Another thing Tom, you park your car six inches off the back of my bike at a light or crowd me in traffic, I'll be the guy getting off my bike and you and I will hve a "chat". You get dangerously close to me like that and I will take it as a threat to my life and will deal with it appropriately. Then you will get a welcome into "my world". You won't like the visit. That's not bullying sweetheart, that's a promise. As for the law being on track to be passed, you just showed your own arrogance that you think you are in the majority. Never assume that you have the power like you think you do. Power perceived is power achieved. You can't just sit on you can and get things done. Next time drag your butt off the sofa and go yourself, or quit whinning. "

Veronica wrote on Oct 14, 2008 12:37 PM:

" Can't these insecure people with the lound pipes and sound systems find another way to draw attention to themselves so that they will feel special, unique and cared for? Making the rest of us suffer due to their mental issues is a sad state of affairs for all parties. "

Juan wrote on Oct 14, 2008 2:06 PM:

" You can't legislate maturity or responsible behavior. Unless we had enough police to measure the sound levels and follow through in the courts, this problem won't be fixed on the streets. Regulation of OEM and after market equipment permissable for street operation is the correct, longer term fix. If your car, truck, or bike doesn't meet standards, you don't get a plate for it. "

Dr. Pipes wrote on Oct 14, 2008 4:04 PM:

" Look at me! Look at me! Oh, please, pay some attention to me (my parents didn't).

That is what these loud pipes and other forms of aberant public behavior are saying to all of us.

The pathetic persons causing the public disruptions are to be pittied. "

safety ok right wrote on Oct 14, 2008 7:41 PM:

" I guess all those bikes parked in front of the bars in Hartville, Alcova and other bars in the local and surrounding area have responsible people with designated drivers.

I guess they need the loud pipes to warn everyone a soused driver of a high speed torpedo is coming. Perhaps the weaving is not avoidance of road obstructions (unless pink elephants count).

Anyone who believes they need loud pipes for safety there is prime home lots for sale in the swamp land of the southern bayous. "

motoboy wrote on Oct 14, 2008 8:32 PM:

" Loud pipes save lives? Maybe. Helmets save lives for sure, but I don't see too many of the noisiest bikers wearing them. I agree that the noise is mainly to get people to look at you, but not for safety reasons. "

TomT wrote on Oct 14, 2008 8:54 PM:

" So now we know that you call youself "GiantSS" because of your giant mouth. I've dealt with quite a lot of wanna be tough guys who get out of, get off of, something or other. IF you had ever done anything beside listen to yourself talk smack, you'd realize the weaklings talk the biggest, and toughest guys are the quiet ones. So blah blah blah about all you'll do or won't do. All it hurts is my ears, from hearing it all before too many times to count.
Now, back to your bike. Once again, if you can't make your 25 year old bike run right, get someone to work on it for you. Even the high school kid at Sears can tune a lawnmower so it doesn't run rich.
Most bikers are the decent sort but we can all read your rant above and realize you are one of the problem riders everyone wants to be far from. No wonder bikers get a bad rep. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 15, 2008 5:17 AM:

" Get Real, Veronica, Dr Pipes, all of your comments just scream that you think it's all about you. You actually thing that we have our bikes a certain way so that "YOU" will pay attention to us and notice us. What in the world makes you think that anybody , other than your friends and family, gives two squirts about having you notice us. As far as I'm concerned, you don't matter. You don't pay my bills, take care of or protect my family in any way shape or form. It's not that I think I'm better than you, I just don't care about you. Get over yourself. Man, what a bunch of cry babies!!! I guess the west is really dead. You all want government to take care of you and protect you from all of the terrible "noises". You are all sheep, and you don't even know enough to know that you are. Quit worrying about what I'm doing and go back to your Wal-Mart shuffle. You will be a lot happier "

rider wrote on Oct 15, 2008 7:22 AM:

" safety ok - well you guessed wrong. Many times the bikers are at these bars for the same reason the cowboys and indians are and all of course have designated drivers.

After working in emergency services for 30 years and not picking up many motorcycle accidents involving drunk operators as compared to the number of drunk car and truck drivers it appears that sometimes comparisons don't compute.

The number of accidents involving bikers and vehicles is amazing at the times on the police reports we filled in the driver of the "safe" 4 wheel vehicle "didn't see the guy".

So many people in this town and most other places are in a hurry to get somewhere important like Starbucks to get that second cup of joe so if they want to turn into the lane of an oncoming biker so be it. They shouldn't be on the road anyway. After all the cages pay the taxes to build and maintain the road!!!

NOT!!!

And if any of the posters will observe most of the noise makers are riding a crotch rocket that their mom bought them to get them out of the house so they can do wheelies and race each other down the streets.

Bikers who enjoy riding do it to be safe and carefully so as not to injure themselves, their passenger and their bikes. "

Eldon wrote on Oct 15, 2008 10:11 AM:

" Respect in America was once a two way street.

If the bikers want our respect, then they will have to show some in public to the rest of us that do not enjoy spurious loud noise for it's own sake. "

Made the point wrote on Oct 15, 2008 12:11 PM:

" GiantSS, You've made thier point; you seem to think that this world is all about you, and the h_ll with everyone else. Grow up laddie. "

Safety wrote on Oct 15, 2008 12:27 PM:

" All have designated drivers? I suggest you tell that to someone else. First you can never say all and prove it. Second 20 years law enforcement background I have seen the auto at fault, the biker at fault or a combination of the two. I have also seen bikers with a BAT higher than legal limits allow when tested after the accident. So spread that manure on those who may not know because I know better.

An example related to the misunderstood unseen biker who always has a designated driver and never at fault. An accident I covered involving bike to auto. Entry to roadway was clear and the auto pulled out. Estimated speed of the bike was in excess of 120 mph in a 35 mph zone with no skid marks period. As this high speed torpedo cut through the frame of the auto on the driver side passenger compartment on impact (whence the estimated speed of the projectile called a bike was computed) the biker was ejected, hit the vehicle and continued on coming to rest in the roadway over 100 feet from impact. We did not ever figure out at which points the impact broke his neck and several other bones along with the massive internal injury. The auto was totaled but what was worse was the biker was dead at the scene and tested at .13 BAT. At 120 mph plus there is absolutely no way to have expected that bike to be seen and all the loud pipes in the world would not have helped. Had the bike hit the driver’s door of the auto there is no doubt in my mind that there would have been two fatalities that DAY and thank the powers that be he had no passenger on that bike. "

Safety wrote on Oct 15, 2008 12:44 PM:

" www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2001.html.

Web site for 2001 Drunk Driving Statistics. read it however i will provide the following from the site.

The highest intoxication rates in fatal crashes in 2001 were recorded for drivers 21-24 years old (33 percent), followed by ages 25-34 (28 percent) and 35-44 (25 percent).(1)

Intoxication rates for drivers in fatal crashes in 2001 were highest for motorcycle operators (29 percent) and lowest for drivers of large trucks (1 percent).(1)

The intoxication rates for drivers of light trucks and passenger car drivers were the same (23 percent).(1)

So Rider I stand by what i said and from involvement in accidents etc. "

Venus wrote on Oct 15, 2008 1:55 PM:

" Why make the exhaust louder?

Why not use the horn and flash the highbeams to gain attention?

This is a kids argument using safety as an excuss.

Are all bikers this shallow and superficial?

Good god, how did these dullards pass the drivers' test!

Grow up and get a clue! "

Concerned Adult wrote on Oct 15, 2008 3:26 PM:

" GiantSS, How old are you? Do your mommie and daddy know that you're on line? "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 15, 2008 3:45 PM:

" "Made the point" My world is all about me and the people I love and care about. Like I have said in previous blogs on the same subject, I'll grow up when I'm 90, and not a minute before. My point has always been that those complaining that we are doing it to get their attention make the arrogant assumption that they are important enough for me to want their attention. I ride the type of bike that I do for one person, and you or anybody else is not even on my radar. Please explain to me why, when you see or hear a motorcycle that the thought in your head, is that the rider wants YOU to notice them. Maybe...just maybe, they are riding whatever because THEY enjoy it, and the only reason they would want your attention is because they don't want you to turn in front of them or run them over. There has always been a narrow minded segment of society that hates motorcycles and bikers and always will be, and usually they are people that are scared to death of life. What a dull world you must live in that you have so much time to pay attention to people that don't care if you do. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 15, 2008 3:59 PM:

" Tom T, believe it when I say I can back up whatever I say. You are the one that said you were going to start crowding bikes at lights and on the road. Pretty tough for a guy in a car. What are you going to do when you tailgate some poor shmuck that doesn't have very much experience on a bike and you make him so nervous that he drops it front of you and you run over and either maim him or kill him? As for making my bike run right, it does, but there are such things as temperature, and air density that affect any internal combustion engine, but then you have to have a kid a Sears tune your lawn mower so what would you know about anything like that? The only thing you can make run, is your mouth "

rider wrote on Oct 15, 2008 9:33 PM:

" Ok safety now that you are bragging about your star, maybe you can learn to read too.

The comment about designated drivers involved not just the bikers you like to whine about but included how many of the cowboys and indians who came out of the bars and got in those trucks to drive away without a designated driver. If you don't believe, go sit outside the Beacon like the Mills Police Department does so when the bar closes so they can stop all those designated drivers in the big trucks also.

This isn't the place to compare accident responses. We have both seen bad and good. And saying mine is worse than yours doesn't make any sense at all.

As a badge holder I too have seen a lot of both bad bikers and bad 4 wheelers.

Next time you go to a christmas party or a weekend bbq with other badge holders let me know how many of them leave with their desigated drivers too please. "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 16, 2008 7:13 AM:

" GiantSS- I guess no one here wants to really try to understand what the real issue is here.

You all are confusing the the non-caring disrespectful rider with the screaming _ss crotch rockets that make a ton of noise with the rest of riders, most of which are very respectful, decent people that are enjoying a freedom you non riders DO NOT understand. I'm sorry if you all don't believe that having louder pipes has saved a life more times than you realize. And don't judge and throw alcohol and helmets into the argument to make you look more ignorant, most times that is not an issue. I have NOT EVER sat at a light and intentionally draw attention to myself and revved my engine needlessly. And for all of you who think that we are wanting you to just look at us, maybe you are jealous and have such boring lives that you just don't get it. There ain't nothing shallow about any of us. You all just don't get. I'd like to say to you all why don't you try it, maybe you'd understand, but alot of you putting us down couldn't handle it.

AND, AND, just for the record, again, they teach you in motorcycel safety courses, all of them, that loud pipes saves lives. As one instructor put it, "you may pi** off the little old lady next you, but she knows you are there". So stop judging, stop generalizing all riders as the same and lets all work to solve this. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 16, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Concerned Adult, you should really watch what you run your yap about. I'm 51, and as far as my "mommie and daddie" are concerned, I did CPR on my father only to have him die in my arms, and held my mother when she left this world. You are an ass. My "daddie" had five Silver Stars in the Korean war, and fought for even the smallest of freedoms that you and your ilk would like to take away. He raised all of his children to think for themselves and mind their own business, something obviously lacking with you and your kind. Like I said before, people like you are all sheep. The sheep in front of you doesn't like loud noises, so you stick your nose up that sheeps wazoo, and you all bleat the same thing. Baa, please Mr Govt guy,baa save me,baa, I can't carry my own water,baa, pass a law, baa, I'm offended, baaaaa, and it goes on and on and on. GET A LIFE!! and keep your noses out of everybody elses.
LadyRider has it figured out. It is about freedom and freedom only. Somebody brought the issue of bikers fighting helmet laws. The point of that is government is trying to force adults to wear something that should be an individual choice, like smoking or seat belts. It's not the item we are against, but rather a nanny state goverment full of professional hand wringers and do gooders. "

safety wrote on Oct 16, 2008 12:40 PM:

" “Rider” first of all I do not drink or use drugs period my security clearance was more important than doing stupid stuff. I saw enough carnage from those who do drink or use drugs and drive.

The whine comment is put forth because you know your statement that bikers always have designated drivers over your 30 years in emergency services was false and you were caught in it. Perhaps the truth would make your arguments more palatable. But then again you would have to apply ethics.

I included the web site and included a portion of the stats so don’t (as you say it) whine when caught being less than honest and trying to change the subject. I also stated that it was not always the bike at fault I said sometimes the auto was at fault, sometimes the bike and sometimes both again you apparently did not do what you stated I was at fault with i.e. Reading.

By the way I have ridden bikes since age 17 and am now 57 and my last bike was a Valkyrie. Never needed tricked out pipes, no tickets (I could not ethically give one a ticket if was doing the same thing), and no accidents. I also look for bikes because I ride them and I do know when they are there long before I hear them.

I did not say auto drivers did not drink and drive this blog is about bikes. Your absurd comment about a star is beyond the pale as I remember each incident I saw auto, bike or other. Once you cover someone with a yellow tarp you never forget it and they were all avoidable tragedies regardless of who was at fault.

For you to say it never happens with a bike and they all have designated drivers is also absurd. If anyone in this state auto or bike was driven by a designated driver I would be amazed. No matter what you say loud pipes they are vanity accessories and will not help if you do not follow basic safety common sense rules and obey the law.

If you want to honestly debate the issue fine if you want to trade insults that’s fine. All I know at the time is I do not have to cover another accident (which is hard with a fatality) but I also do not have to notify next of kin which is much harder. "

Brian wrote on Oct 16, 2008 1:43 PM:

" Hey Tom, thats called aggravated assault, with a deadly weapon, punishable by ten years, and yes it does say" attempts to cause" also. I also realize that most people that say things like that are simply expressing some feelings and would actually never do such a thing. We do encourage all riders, and motorists too, to stop, use your cell phone to take a picture, try to get a license plate photo, dial 911, remain calm, remain on the scene and make a complaint. Aggravated assault with a motor vehicle is a SERIOUS offense, not a joke to be bandied about in an online forum. We take it as a threat to our lives, as it is, and we will react accordingly. "

Flo wrote on Oct 16, 2008 2:10 PM:

" Lady Rider and company; Making a public nuisance of yourself, and acting tough doesn't endear you to the rest of us or make you appear important. It only proves your ignorance, immaturity and utter lack of manners. Your posts are only increasing the enmity and disgust that the rest of the "normal" citizens have for bikers; you are your own worst enemies. Perhaps you should develop a cerebral side, and try to evaluate what the various bloggers posting here are collectively trying to tell you. You are seen as a public problem, not valued members of society. This observation and judgment are based solely on your actions and expressed values. Both of which run counter to the majority. It may be time for you to clean up, and grow up. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 16, 2008 3:51 PM:

" Flo, just because some of you say that we are public nuisance doesn't make it so. There is no acting tough or trying to endear ourselves to you. I don't even know you, so why would I care if you like me or notice me. You so called normal citizens only see the cover of the book, yet you seem to think that you are cerebal enough to know what is inside without reading it. College must have been a breeze for you. You didn't have to open a book, you just looked at it. I have evaluated what the other bloggers have said and what I hear is "conform", join the rest of the herd, think like us. No thanks. I prefer to lead, not be led. You see us as a public problem. I see you as the public problem because you are all so willing to give up your freedom to choose for some sense of percieved security. Those willing to do that will have neither. Who are you to judge my value to society. Did God somehow appoint you to that position? Why is it so hard for some of you to wrap it around your mind that there are people that don't care if you or people like you, value us, respect us, or notice us.My self worth is not dependant on anything other than myself. So, once again I will state, because it is just not sinking in to you "normal" citizens. I don't care about anybody other than myself, family, and friends. I don't stick my nose in your business. I don't look at you and judge you unless you insist on injecting your self into my life, which so many people these days, especially in Casper, seem intent on doing.
Brian, excellent point. Obviously, Tom has never had any experience with the legal system in this country, or he wouldn't even consider it. If you ever do something that dumb, Tom, figure on it costing you a little over $35K and a year out of your life. Most lawyers that can handle that case will want at leat $10K up front. So you decide how tough you are Tom. Once you are in that court room, it doesn't matter what kind of upstanding citizen you think you are, all you will be at that point is "defendant' "

LadyRider wrote on Oct 16, 2008 3:53 PM:

" Flo - EXCUSE ME!!!
You have no clue what you are even talking about. Everybody wants to think that bikers are the worst. MY GOD, people, FLO and all the rest, you are passing judgements on people you have no idea who they are. Just because we don't agree, that we have a collective idea that is contrary to what the rest of you thinks, doesn't make us trash. How do we keep coming to that?
I am an older professional business person in this town with a bike worth 25k between my legs and a right to live my incredible life the way I CHOOSE, irregardless of those of you who want to judge everyone without the facts. I have NEVER EVER made a public nuisance of myself nor do I lack in maturity, manners, cerebral activity, cleanliness or any of the other absurd comments you must make to justify your "normal" mind. Funny how we have to attack those whom we know nothing about in order to impose our opinion on those who disagree.
I think the enemy here has become quite clear.
This pi**ing match is over for me. Turn your radio up and roll up your windows. And you better watch out, there are thousands of us LadyRiders out there on big beautiful bikes you wish you had the guts, the security, the money, and the love of life to attempt in your life.
Ride On. Ride Safe. Stand Up. "

Advice wrote on Oct 16, 2008 4:47 PM:

" GiantSS, We live in a majority rule nation. Most of the posts here reflect a negative sentiment regarding the noise produced by some bikes and your belligerent replies to their remarks. Get a clue, buy some quieter pipes and consider what others may think of your brash remarks since you choose to represent the entire biking community. Follow my example; my BMW is nearly silent and in 40 years have never been in a riding situation where loud pipes would have made any safety difference. I also don't shoot my mouth off when confronted by others that do not see eye to eye with me or my lifestyle, I take a measured approach and respond with logic, or just smile and walk away. I don't need to. I am 6'3" and weigh 200 pounds, and have 24 years in the Marine Corps under my belt. But might does not make right. Go in peace. "

Christinaj wrote on Oct 16, 2008 8:52 PM:

" You all would have no clue as to who rides a bike if you just simply see them at there workplace or on the streets. There are so many "upstanding citizens" (by your standards, of course) that ride motorcycles. Doctors, lawyers, firemen, police, nurses, and many others all ride bikes these days.

And for all of you running your mouth to Giantss and not believing that he can back up everything he says, well I know him and I can tell you that he can back it all up 110%. He isn't all talk and no action, quite the contrary. This is a blog, besides talk, what else is one supposed to do. "

TomT wrote on Oct 16, 2008 9:23 PM:

" I mention "crowding" and stopping 6" off your bumper at a stop light, and you lunatics have turned it into a felony crime. You describe how you will use lethal force and you even have the particular crime categorized and priced out! For a bunch of toughs, you sure scream at the thought that someone out here doesnt' care for you.
I'd say you need to evaluate what kind of biker (GiantSS) it takes who says they will get off their bike and use lethal force on anyone who parks too close behind him at a stoplight. And you consider me the problem? hahahah
The best part of this exchange is that it allows you bikers to show the world exactly what you are, and how you truly behave when you aren't trying to snow job the city council.
Just as I predicted, all I have to do is sit back and watch you lunatics come unwound. "

safety wrote on Oct 17, 2008 6:00 AM:

" two tours nam myself and thank you for your service Advice. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:25 AM:

" Advice, first I would like to thank you for your service to this country, you have my complete respect for that.The only person I speak for in all of this is myself. You prefer to ride a quiet BMW. That is your choice, I prefer to ride old Harleys, that is my choice. We are steadily having rights chipped away at by people that just have to be offended by something every day of their lives. This country will not go out with a bang, but a whimper. We are talking about noise. It comes and it goes. Pass all of the laws you want, it will never go away.
Tom, you are indeed an idiot. No body said they were going to use lethal force. I want you to crowd a cop car at a light or on the road, and you will find out what happens. Also, I never said diddly about anybody caring about me you dolt. I care about me and that is all I need, you get in my space and I will move you. Simple enough. Being tough has nothing to do with it. It is simply a matter of never backing down if you believe in what you are saying or doing. I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I never snivel about my life, because I am the one that has to live it and I take responsibility for all of it, good or bad. I never will and never have gone running to govt, crying, save me save me! I will never claim to be Mr Nice Guy. I am definitley on the fringe of society and I like it there. The real difference between people like you Tom, and people like me, is that we don't stick our noses where they don't belong. I have lived in big cities and small towns and never have I seen a town with so many busy bodies in it. You are all so concerned with other people's lives I don't see how you have time to mind yours. "

KimMH wrote on Oct 17, 2008 10:31 AM:

" Since the ordinance was worded "any motor vehicle," this made everyone subject to a ticket for any attention getting motor vehicle. The idea was to address two wheeled motor vehicles, so I suggest you direct your ire at the city attorney's office since they are responsible for the wording of city ordinances. They did a terrible job.
But, I suspect many of the people who have posted here are not in favor of a nanny state, so I note that the ball is now in the court of bikers. They got the message and I believe we'll see improvements. Give them a chance. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 17, 2008 11:59 AM:

" For those of you that judge a biker by his looks, long hair, beard, tattoos, or whatever, consider these people.
John Wayne Gacy, Theodore Bundy, Richard Kuklinski. They all looked like "normal" citizens by your standards, yet were some of the worst serial killers in US history. They were upstanding citizens in their communities. I am more suspicious of "normal" people than I am a 1%er. I'm not going to tip toe around and tell you lies so you will feel better and not have your self esteem damaged. You will get my honest opinion regardless of what may come down on me. I don't see much of that with the general public. "

Brian wrote on Oct 17, 2008 12:44 PM:

" It is a felony. "

Sally wrote on Oct 17, 2008 1:40 PM:

" GiantSS, It is not your looks. It is your assinine behavior and arrogant attitude. Can't you read either? "

Edison wrote on Oct 17, 2008 1:42 PM:

" All loud vehicles should be subject to the code, and I agree with that completely.

I do not care what the source the unnecessary sounds come from.

All are rude and all should stop. "

TomT wrote on Oct 17, 2008 5:00 PM:

" Brian, what felony crime does "crowding" and "parking 6" from another car" violate?
If I choose to drive along the center line and stay 1" within my lane and "crowd" the other lane, it's well within my rights now isn't it? And, if I choose to park within 1" inch of another car in stopped traffic, i'm still within my rights. There is no law against "almost" striking someone in traffic, otherwise they'd be arresting them by the hundreds in the curve at Black Hills Trucking on North Poplar. You need to go read some state statutes before shooting off your mouth about what is or isn't a felony. Like every other person out there, you watched cop shows on t.v. and became and expert!
As for you Giant, you had such a colorful and well composed description of parking your bike and attacking the guy behind you in traffic, it's obvious you have either done this a bunch, or dreamed about it a bunch. Either way, it makes you a road rage candidate of the 1st order. I'm 48 years old, 6'00 208 so i'm probably no match for your pot bellied, balding biker meanness you talk about. Anyhow, this is getting old. You talk tough, and Brian thinks everything is a felony so the fun has worn off of this. Felony felony felony.. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 18, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Tom, I thought that you had taken out wanna be tough guys like me too many times to count.
Sally, I wasn't talking about my looks. There are a number of bloggers here that have made references to the way bikers looks and how normal citizens are disgusted with the way bikers in general look. And yes, I am an arrogant sob. It's not bragging if you can do it "

Christinaj wrote on Oct 19, 2008 12:49 AM:

" I read this all and I really can't believe my own eyes. The part that I can't believe is how people think of people that ride motorcycles. Everyone that is against bikers has this image of some big, nasty, burly, greasy, disgusting slob smoking and dealing crack in one hand and swiggin' from a bottle of whiskey with the other while terrorizing the wonderul, cleancut, upstanding citizens by raping your wifes, taking your daughter's virginity, and selling sawed off shot guns to your sons. I guess we can thank Hollywood for that image. I have met LOTS of bikers in my 29 years since I grew up in a biker family and NONE of them have ever matched that image. I am sure that they do exist but out of the 100's that I have met, none were this image. I have met biker's that were some of Casper's finest, upstanding citizen's, really high up there people. I met a congressman, yes thats right, that rode. One Casper's pricest lawyers ride. Some of the most looked up to doctors ride. I have even met a preacherman that rides, a man of God. Your prejudemental images are unfair and unrealistic at best. I, personally, am more scared of that quiet guy who keeps mostly to himself and hardly talks to anyone because monsters don't always look like monsters. On that note, good people, don't always look like good people. "

Vehicle Standards wrote on Oct 19, 2008 9:34 PM:

" Juan: "Regulation of OEM and after market equipment permissable for street operation is the correct, longer term fix. If your car, truck, or bike doesn't meet standards, you don't get a plate for it. "

That is an excellent Idea.

Should be a state standard, or possibly even national. I'd vote for that. "

Brian wrote on Oct 19, 2008 9:50 PM:

" That came from State Statutes. And if you will look at them you will see that it is a felony. You made your intentions clear, and almost is a crime. "

GiantSS wrote on Oct 20, 2008 10:01 AM:

" More laws!! We must have more laws. Never can have enough laws!! Pretty soon we will all be so safe and comfortable that you won't be able to stand living here. What a bunch of whinny a**sed marsh mellows. "

Vehicle Standards wrote on Oct 20, 2008 6:55 PM:

" GiantSS,

Unfortunately because of apparently inconsiderate selfish people who don't care if they trample on the rights of others to live and enjoy their own lives (and their own hobbies), yes, it looks like we need more laws.

In an earlier post you said:

Obviously, you essentially ARE 'sticking' your noses were they don't belong (in the homes of other residents for example) by creating a racket the disturbs them.

You also said:

We are trying to mind our own lives but people who drive through town with ridiculously loud thumping bass or rumbling exhaust won't let us!

People can live dangerously if they want - as long as it does interfere with other peoples rights. For example there are people who climb cliffs, or hand glide, or balloon, or even race cars (at a race track!) that are participating in a hobble/sport and NOT trampling on the rights of others. Sounds like a livable existence. BTW, I myself used to bicycle all across the city, but I can't do that anymore because I don't get enough sleep.

You don't want to be called 'whinny' for your own complaining. thats name calling...anyone can do that you know. doesn't help support your point of view. "

TomT wrote on Oct 20, 2008 8:09 PM:

" Well Brian, here is your chance to prove you are more than an opinion page yapper. Please quote to me the exact felony statutes you think I have violated. Remember, for something to violate the law it must meet the elements of the crime as stated.. I'll gladly discuss this with you every day if you wish, but for now, you have the floor. "

Vehicle Standards wrote on Oct 21, 2008 11:33 AM:

" Seems text enclosed in greater than and less than signs doesn't show - my references to GiantSS comments didn't appear in my last post, so I'm reposting using [ ] instead. Sorry.
--------

[More laws!! We must have more laws. Never can have enough laws!!]

Unfortunately because of apparently inconsiderate selfish people who don't care if they trample on the rights of others to live and enjoy their own lives (and their own hobbies), yes, it looks like we need more laws.

In an earlier post you said: [we don't stick our noses where they don't belong.]

Obviously, you essentially ARE 'sticking' your noses were they don't belong (in the homes of other residents for example) by creating a racket the disturbs them.

You also said: [You are all so concerned with other people's lives I don't see how you have time to mind yours. "]

We are trying to mind our own lives but people who drive through town with ridiculously loud thumping bass or rumbling exhaust won't let us!

[Pretty soon we will all be so safe and comfortable that you won't be able to stand living here.]

People can live dangerously if they want - as long as it does interfere with other peoples rights. For example there are people who climb cliffs, or hand glide, or balloon, or even race cars (at a race track!) that are participating in a hobble/sport and NOT trampling on the rights of others. Sounds like a livable existence. BTW, I myself used to bicycle all across the city, but I can't do that anymore because I don't get enough sleep.

[What a bunch of whinny a**sed marsh mellows. "]

You don't want to be called 'whinny' for your own complaining. thats name calling...anyone can do that you know. doesn't help support your point of view. "

Brian wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:09 AM:

" sorry for the delay, had to work, 6-5-502 "

crazy ike wrote on Oct 29, 2008 1:21 PM:

" Do you sissies have anything else better to do in life then to cry and stomp you're feet over the outlaw biker community? I will tell you what, my scooter will remain LOUD, I will continue to protest this un-American law in regards to me having to wear a helmet and there will be nothing you or any of you're baby-sitting law makers are going to do about it ! And don't be looking for another biker to cave in to you're cry-baby mellow-dramatic ideas because he ain't listening either. Find something else to cry about and be on you're way! "

RFBurns-ZeroPointRadio wrote on Nov 23, 2008 6:19 PM:

" Its one thing to be noticed and be heard on a motorcycle, given that a majority of drivers in cars around Casper do not pay attention anyway. And I thought that Texas had the worst drivers. Now just because the city council allows for loud motorcycles, does that also include loud steros and loud diesel exausts on trucks? Surely as big as a 4x4 ugly grey truck is, it hardly needs any loud exaust or stereo system to be seen for safety's sake now does it? And there is definately one running around this town that far exceeds the decible level of even a 12 cylinder 18 wheel rig!

And there are plenty of others out there that are far louder than they were when driven off the dealer lot. Point here is that it is not necessary to have such a loud exaust system that your causing what is known as "noise pollution". These vehicles are definately doing that, causing excessive noise pollution. Now if I were to run straight pipes on my Camaro and start fireing that up, people would be yelling "muffle it!", so why am I and everyone in my neighborhood having to put up with these loud diesel trucks that spew black soot everytime they romp on the gas peddal making such loud noise and filling up the air with black exaust soot? I would like to see just one, straight off the shelf diesel vehicle from the dealer lot do this. No you wont find any. However you will find them rolling off the lots at custom shops. It is these places that need to be investigated that put these modifications onto vehicles where they not only cause a nusiance, but also violate federal vehicle modification laws.

Is this state and city the only place where it thinks they are immune to laws set down by the federal governemnt yet consider itself a part of the union?

Good thing this is not Texas for if it were, every single excessive loud vehicle, be it truck, car or motorcycle, would be sitting in the state impound and your ass would be in the state pen for violating state and federal laws.

MUFFLE IT OR SHOVEL IT!!!

ps..just for arguments sake, I do intend to let this council person know that they need to revisit this ordinance and enact excessive noise laws, as well as bring this issue up to state legislature. This will apply to excessive exaust noise as well as excessive stereo noise.

It is time to hault the exessive noise here and now! "

Submit a Comment

We encourage your feedback and dialog, all comments will be reviewed by our Web staff before appearing on the Web site.

Please note: We provide our story commenting feature in order to solicit feedback, debate and discussion on topics of local interest. Please keep in mind that civility is a necessary component of productive conversation. All blatantly inflammatory or otherwise inappropriate comments (i.e. vulgarity, marketing, etc.) are subject to rejection and/or removal. Comments will appear if and when they are approved. Thanks for reading, and thanks for participating.