" SAVE THE GOPHER!
Limit all man made activity!
Put vast tracts off limits before it's too late!

The enviro-crazies never stop. Let's get that thru our heads. Always more restrictions. Some additional rat or bug turned up under a rock can stop a mulit-million $$ investment at the loss of revenue and jobs.

Whose side are these wackos on? The side of human society or that of a gopher colony? "

" You've got to be kidding me! Biodiversity wackos! Let's picket these idiots....they must have been really disappointed over the Prop 8 thing in California! "

" Well, Mac, we have wackos like you on the other side pushing DEVELOP, BURN, RAZE, DRILL, BUILD, POLLUTE, PAVE, CONSUME, DESTROY, USE, DECIMATE, until for our children and grandchildren ther will be little of anything left, so it all balances out. One left-wing tree hugger nutjob and one right-wing global parking lot V-8 driving ultraconsumer nutjob leaves most of the rest of us in the middle, laughing. Or is that crying? "

" Hooray!!! Biodiversity has come up with yet another precious "endangered species" to protect... OR do you suppose they're pushing this protection to block wind farm development in that area?

They really aren't that hard to figure out. "

" Economy tanking they are just trying to get all the law suit money they can so they dont starve. They have to get on the government gravy train at our expence rather than have a real job. "

" It's difficult to know where to begin with the comments posted at this site. There seems to be an unexplainable rage toward other species that have been part of stable living systems for ages before humans set foot on the land. "Some new rat or bug turned up under a rock," one says? Hardly. The species has been serving a role you don't understand for a longer time period than you probably acknowledge. How can one be so short-sighted to think that the last 50 years of known degradation (in the name of a narrow view of progress) is a better approach to land use than the past 15,000 years of system stability. Another laments, "BCA has come up with another endangered species to protect." There's a very real cause and effect explanation for species populations dwindling to a point endangered status ... no one "comes up" with another species. The tanking economy is tanking because of species protection? If we cannot learn to maintain a human economy without bias against a sustainable living system, the Dow average is a moot point. Again, compare the stability of natural systems vs. human economic systems. It's apparent that a lengthy presentation of evidence would do little to stimulate intelligent discourse among many of the commentors at this site. Nevertheless, unless evidence-based decisions are made which recognize the interdependent relationships among humans and each of the millions of other species, we will, unfortunately, find out who the "wackos" were.

Philip Short
Belleville, IL "

" Turn off the football game "Mac." This isn't about sides. It's about truth. The truth, if international scientific consensus means anything to you, is that we are in the sixth major period of extinction - one that rivals the last five great extinctions in history with the exception that this one is largely due to human activity. Often represented by the acronym HIPPO, the major causes of biodiversity loss are Habitat alteration, Introduced & Invasive species, Pollution, exponential Population growth in humans, and Overconsumption. Again, universal scientific consensus. This does not imply that all human activity is detrimental. However, greedy activity that doesn't recognize that economies are based on ecology is destined to have negative consequences. Is it just the endangered gopher, Mac. Feel the same about the California condor? Panda? Siberian Tiger? Mountain gorillas caught in the Congo-Rwandan conflict? Is there a single species for which you would support protections and, if so, under what circumstances? Do you have any evidence that protecting species is incompatible with a long-range plan for progressive, stable economy? Are you just insecure with the truth that you are one in 6 1/2 billion humans - one species in 10 - 30 million species? Exactly what is it that keeps one so confined in a paradigm of human isolationism? "

" Thank goodness there are organizations like BCA out there to speak up for "the least among us." Anyone with a minimal grasp of ecology and a shred of honesty understands that any activity which would exterminate or extirpate any other species is detrimental to our own species as well. But for those with a hole in their hearts which they try to fill with money, there is no such thing as "enough." "

" A few rebuttals:

Protecting the Wyoming Pocket Gopher is hardly going to limit all man-made activity. It has only ever been seen in two counties in Wyoming.

The idea that conservationists are going to benefit from lawsuit money "so they don't have to get a real job" is a total laugh. What lawsuit money does anyone get from holding the gov't accountable to their own deadlines? And take a look at salary comparisons from the nonprofit sector to educate yourself about what conservationists really make. Most take a huge pay cut from what they could make elsewhere in order to work for a public charity serving the public good.

BCA is not blocking wind farm development. In fact, they've just published a report suggesting where and how wind farms should be developed in Wyoming.

Check the facts. "

" Coming from Illinois really helps their case. The socialist there have ruined the state. For Illinois to tell others how to take care of their state is at this point laughable. I grew up there (Jacob) left for military in 69 and will never return except to visit family.

So why do you not take care of your own state to include the extremely impoverished East St Louis and other places in Southern Illinois. Perhaps if Springfield would quit sending the lion’s share of taxes to Chicago they could bring the state back to some semblance of sanity.

I also suggest Talia see how much they (environmentalists) get when they win a case. The taxpayer has to foot the bill for their legal expenses etc. because they take the case in front of a judge that is liberal and sympathetic in an area under the 9th circus court of appeals jurisdiction. Or in DC to one who thinks his/her steak and potatoes appear via magic on his/her plate daily.

Every time you wing nuts debate the issue you always bring up it is public land meaning it belongs to only those who agree with you. Since that is the way it comes across maybe you will work just as hard getting your hypocritical friends of the land to pick up and pack out what they carry in instead of leaving it for those who really care to pick up. I pack out what I carry in plus pick up other stuff left by others like environmental, wolf, and related literature along with the regular trash they leave. "

" When laws of physics and nature's processes are determined by State politics "You Bet's" comments will have merit. Until then, his/her words are meaningless.

I, the author of the petition to list the Wyoming pocket gopher under the Endangered Species Act, happen to be an Illinois native. So what?

I have also lived and worked in Alaska, Arizona and Texas. I am a zoologist. Crossing any of those state borders I did not find a single change in the science that is used to determine whether a species has sufficient population size and enough favorable environmental conditions to maintain its viability in the wild. Like mathematical precepts, basic science bears universal applicability or it is not science.

Fact: Nearly 100% of the scientific data that went into Biodiversity Conservation Alliance's decision originated right here in Wyoming.

Fact is: So What? Life science is not a discipline that recognizes political borders. Had a Russian scientist with a particular interest in pocket gophers conducted studies and supplied the data, the fact that the scientist was Russian would, like "You Bet's" comments, be meaningless.

Fact: Whether a biologist was born in Wyoming, raised in Wyoming, and works in Wyoming are non-factors in the realm of science.

It seems to me that those commenting on scientific matters, in a public way, really should have at least an elementary understanding about the nature of science. They should understand how rigid and merciless to fallacy in logic science really is.

Even if one wishes to invoke "common sense," in lieu of science, regarding the pocket gopher... go ahead. Common sense, alone, shouts loud and clear just how dire the condition of the Wyoming pocket gopher really is.

The Endangered Species Act demands that wildlife threatened or endangered with extinction be protected. There is no debate about this. It is too bad that some folks don't understand the importance of gophers, and all wildlife, to our planet's larger ecosystems.

Readers, for what it's worth... I will not be one penny richer or poorer after the court acts or after U.S. Fish and Wildlife issues a decision--no matter what they decide. "You Bet," you bet on that... ok!

No one should believe that those, like me, working for non-profit organizations like BCA are paid extra for cases won or species listed. "You Betcha," that is just one great big myth. "

" BTW I am an Illinois native also but I see you missed that I discussed your states inability to take care of its own perhaps because people like you are telling other states what to do first.

I will not return to that state because neolibs like you ruined it. So much for your having any semblance of reading comprehension with such an impressive non provable degree. You do have a degree do you not?

I can see it now as the new church of the environmental cult of the worship of the 4 legged gods (non profit of course) thumps its new found religion cramming it down everyone’s throat. Your religion is nothing more than the control of everyone else forcing them to fit your mold.

I used to donate annually to the Sierra Club until they made a discriminatory comment and now I will not support any of you with time or funds and anything you say is automatically suspect.

So attack away as that is the way of the environs wing nuts and self professed zoologists/supposed experts. You are Just another (possible) degree holder who cannot get a real job because his non provable degree is from some second rate university. If what I say has no merit then neither does what you say.

Creatures have gone extinct all throughout our planets history and will do so until the planet is destroyed. There is nothing you can do except delay it. I would rather the money you waste go to children’s health care than some gopher. Environmental groups are a pestilence that imposes their will on everyone else by whatever means possible no better than a virus.

I guess you would find that without merit aka a child without health care is of less importance than a creature ast the child would not support your salary.

As far as where the scientist came from I do not care not even if he is from Mars I would still have the same opinion so live with it.

I note you also said not one penny poorer so that indicates you are receiving something and I expect more than you would admit to as you would really never say exactly what the environs supposedly non profits get or pay. I would bet on that. Or is it you are a silver spoon in the mouth trust fund baby?

You also discuss the travels and I bet that you did not do that out of your pocket. No you had it paid for along with the expense accounts etc. How much do you get from the government for your non profit (like ACORN does)? "

" I sign my real name to these posts. "Yet Bet" is an odd name for someone that is so positive about everything s/he says.

I guess when you don't sign your own name there is no accountability so one can say anything that pops into one's head, whether or not there is a shred of truth or accuracy to what is said.

To remind everyone, the issue is whether the Wyoming pocket gopher is, in fact, threatened or endangered with extinction. The law of the United States of America requires protection of such species.

I wrote a petition requesting that the US Fish and Wildlife Service list the gopher under the Endangered Species Act...the same Act that help bring the American bald eagle back from the brink of extinction. Eagles eat everything from gophers to fish to other birds and small to medium sized game animals (large ones as carrion). Whether predator or prey a given creature is (like it or not) part of a system that depend on each for balance.

What good is a gopher? if they could talk, foxes, coyotes, badgers, hawks, owls, snakes, and a host of other predators would explain the importance of gophers.

It appears You Bet would not listen (even if they could talk) to the diversity of animals that depend (at least in part) on gophers for their survival. After all, You Bet has already stated s/he would not listen to a scientist even if "he" was from Mars. I guess You Bet assumes there would be no female scientists on Mars. Maybe s/he has seen the book title Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars (but I digress).

The inherent value of any living thing is a value some folks just seem not to get. Biologists and many others make a life of trying to better understand our living world and the value of each living plant and animal. Without life scientists we would still, in many ways, live in a very dark world

For example, our present medical profession and many of its current "modern miracles" did not originate in hospital operating rooms or medical laboratories.

Professors and students around world originate much of the research data that eventually finds utility in the medical arena.

Basic science that is the foundation of the applied sciences. Basci science often begins with professors and students working in places like forests, plains, rivers, lakes, on mountains and etc.

Just as dinner does not originate on grocery store shelves, and as cars don't really originate in cars factories, life saving medications do not originate in pharmacies and complex surgical techniques do not originate in hospital operating rooms.

Research that produces greater understanding of wild and domesticated animals has contributed immeasurably to human well-being over the centuries. This alone should cause society to feel some sort obligation to protect those plants and animals that we may lose before we have a chance to learn their medical value (not to mention their inherent value to their ecosystem).

If gratitude for past wildlife contributions and hope for continued contributions to human well-being is lost on the reader, there are innumerable other reasons to protect threatened or endangered wildlife and plants.

One of those reasons is this: It's the law!

In our Democracy no one is above the law (at least in theory). "

" To You Bet about how much "the environmentalists" are awarded in lawsuits. I've seen some of them. What of it? It's all to attorney fees. "The environmentalists" (in general) don't get any of it. Have you seen what lawsuits cost?

As an aside, you're missing the definition of the word "neoliberal." Neoliberalism is a type of economic theory most akin to Adam Smith's "free market" capitalism, not a "new" political "liberal."

Furthermore, we're going through the highest rate of extinction in the history of the earth. Sure, there have been extinctions before, but none this *fast.* Ignore it at (y)our peril. "