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Alcohol continues to stoke Casper crime

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By JOSHUA WOLFSON
Star-Tribune staff writer

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:29 PM MST

A deadly drag race on a busy city street.

A bar argument that led to a man's death following surgery.

A street fight that morphed into a fatal stabbing.

Three deadly incidents in the Casper area, with victims separated by age and circumstance. They happened at different times, in three different sections of town.

The common denominator? Alcohol.

Booze continued to play a role in most newsworthy crimes in Casper this year, from a bar fight where a man lost his ear to a to a stabbing on Casper Mountain. It crept into most major court cases and caused deadly car crashes.

"People make bad decisions on any controlled substance, including alcohol," said Casper Police Chief Tom Pagel. "Our officers are constantly dealing with people who are under the influence of alcohol."

The numbers back him up.

A study commissioned by the Wyoming Association of Sheriffs and Chiefs of Police found alcohol played a role in more than 70 percent of the state's arrests. In Natrona County, that figure stood at nearly 60 percent.

The numbers might actually be higher because reporting forms aren't always filled out, said Natrona County District Attorney Michael Blonigen.

"I can state with some confidence that percentage is low," he said.

Other statistics offer further evidence of alcohol's effect on crime. In 2004, Blonigen's office prosecuted about 24 drunken driving cases a month. Four years later, that number has nearly tripled to about 67 per month.

Casper had its share of high-profile drunken driving cases this year, including that of Doug Downs, who was twice arrested for drunken driving on the same night. On the second occasion, he dragged another man for more than a mile underneath a sport utility vehicle. The dragging victim, Jeff Irene, had been lying in a parking lot with a blood-alcohol level of .374.

In September, a judge sentenced Downs to up to four years in prison.

This summer, a Bar Nunn man died while authorities said he was participating in a drag race down a Casper street. Both Corey Campbell and Donald Walsh, the man he was racing, had blood-alcohol concentrations well above the legal limit. A judge dismissed felony charges against Walsh, but prosecutors filed new charges and the case is pending.

Even with the spotlight on drunken driving offered by those cases, Casper drivers continued to hit the bottle before hitting the roads. City police are on pace for between 625 and 650 DUI arrests this year -- an all-time high. In addition, they will make another 750 or so arrests for public intoxication.

"It's pretty clear that Casper has a fairly casual attitude toward drinking and overdrinking," Pagel said.

Even in crimes not directly related to alcohol, booze still played a role. Natrona County courts held two murder trials this year, and both involved defendants who'd been drinking the night of their crimes. In the most recent case, a jury found Jeffrey Lee Carter guilty of murdering Johnny Shane Moody during a drunken street fight that turned deadly.

While alcohol isn't an excuse, it does lower a person's inhibitions, Blonigen noted.

"It's not that you wouldn't do it before," he said. "But that little voice that says 'don't do it' gets muted."

Despite the numbers, Pagel said there have been some successes in 2008.

"The good news is, in taking quick action with public intoxication, I think we have seen a decrease in other misdemeanor activity," Pagel said, noting that a prompt arrest means a drunken person doesn't remain on the streets to make another bad decision.

Many local liquor dealers are working with police and the City Council to deal with the problem, the chief added. As evidence, he pointed to the Tipsy Taxi program, which will offer drinkers an inexpensive ride home from bars.

When Casper Cabs owner Tom Elliott learned that insuring the Tipsy buses would cost $3,000 a month, local liquor dealers stepped up and donated the money.

"Many of our liquor dealers are taking it seriously, and that is a good thing," Pagel said.

It remains to be seen whether that and other efforts will help reduce alcohol-related crimes. But recent alcohol-related arrest trends aren't encouraging.

"We've been tracking this for the last four years," said Ernie Johnson, who worked on the alcohol and arrests study. "It seems like it has increased each year.

"I think it is something the community leaders need to sit down and ask the question: What are these statistics telling us? ... And more importantly, what can we do about them?"

Reach crime reporter Joshua Wolfson at (307) 266-0582 or at josh.wolfson@trib.com.

Year Tracker

What happened in 2008: Alcohol played a role in the majority of arrests in Casper and most of the city's high-profile crimes.

Where things stand: The city is on pace to end the year with a record number of drunken driving arrests.

Coming in 2009: Officials say collaboration between policy, city leaders and local liquor dealers offers some good news for next year.


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Comments to this story.

DAKOTA wrote on Dec 31, 2008 5:15 AM:

" I wonder if anyone can take the next step and compare the increase in alcohol related incidents to the increase in all the oil patch trash now living in Wyoming? "

Jennifer wrote on Dec 31, 2008 9:47 AM:

" You have no right to compare alcohol related incidents to the oilfield. Who the hell are you? "

we dont REALLY care wrote on Dec 31, 2008 10:12 AM:

" Again, this subject will keep coming up in Casper, but activists, enforcers and lawmakers will most likely keep underestimating what it takes to really get results! Is Casper willing to swim hard against the current...if not, we don't need to talk about this so much! Alcohol is a DRUG. It's much worse than tobacco, and yet we've done very little to inhibit alcohol consumption and tried like mad to make it harder to smoke. In this day where we treat scientists like gods because they think they know the age of the planet, its origins, and its rising temperature...you see we glorify what the mind can do...we then turn around and alter and destroy the mind rampantly throughout our country. People who lose their minds generally have to go to a "facility" that can handle them...but why don't we put someone who's buzzed or drunk in any such place? They've lost their minds just the same! We love alcohol and marijuana and we're not going to voluntarily give them up. The only way it's going to get better is when we collectively decide that the "pleasure" is not worth the pain, on many different levels, and we regulate how much can be sold and consumed. Until then, the innocent have to just try to protect themselves from the stupid evil. Wear your seatbelt. Don't go near or into bars, especially at night. Don't hang with folks who drink with any regularity, especially those with spousal problems, family problems, and quick tempers. Don't let your kids anywhere near people who drink, no exceptions. Don't believe the lie...life has millions of fun, enjoyable experiences that are completely divorced from alcohol and its effect on the mind and body! Ultimately, God alone will be holding accountable those who choose to "lose their minds" and the lawmakers who allow the destruction to continue. People are of highest value, and they should be elevated by being set free from all effects of alcohol! "

What is wrong wrote on Dec 31, 2008 10:50 AM:

" I find this upsetting. I think it needs to be more than a misdemeanor charge for DUI. My sister was killed by a drunk driver and he got probation. I find this so so stupid. I have heard they will not change it due to people losing hunting rights. WHO CARES!!!! I think if people had harder penalties they will less likely drink and drive. Take a hint from Arizona who has the toughest laws in the nation. "

Travis G. wrote on Dec 31, 2008 11:56 AM:

" Dakota, it is simple minded to think that certain people (oil patch trash) are the cause of the problems. Economics plays a much more important role in the increase of alcohol-related crimes.

we don't REALLY care, while your assertion that alcohol is a drug is correct, your bringing scientists and god into the equation has nothing to do with this. You stated that we should "reguluate how much can be controlled and consumed." Our government regulated alcohol in 1920's and it led to more crime. I see many obstacles with that idea.

A suggestion would be to first legalize marijuana, a less harmful and addictive drug than alcohol, enact harsher penalties against alcohol-related offenses, and provide more community funds to combat alcohol problems by offering more social activities and increasing public health awareness. "

REALLY wrote on Dec 31, 2008 12:10 PM:

" You know, this issue just like many in a society. It's not really the folks who are deep in trouble who are responsible for it. The habitual drunk can't solve it! It's the people who are in between, so to speak, who could and should solve. But it's a big leap of faith and love. If you regulate the sale and consumption quantities of alcohol, it won't change the life of the non-drinker, and the habitual drunk will still need major help in quitting. But the in-betweens, they will probably freak! What they don't realize is that they hold the power to save lives, if they will set their own selfish desires aside! There is no greater love than someone who will lay down their life for another person. That doesn't mean dying for them like a hero! It means you actually live in such a way that it will save someone else! The in-betweens, who would prefer the liberty to drink, could set that desire aside, advocate and allow the strict regulation of alcohol quantity, and they would save thousands of lives! The in-betweens, who hold the power, also include those who sell alcohol. Is it really that hard to find equal or better pay, doing something that actually contributes good to society? How do you weigh the dollars versus the destruction? Alas, it will take a major, sweeping wave of support for irradicating this drug before anything will really "change!" "

DAKOTA wrote on Dec 31, 2008 1:31 PM:

" I'm the guy who has lived and worked here since I was born back when Eisenhower was President and have seen this before. We saw this exact same increase in alcohol related crimes during the last boom when we had an increase in patch trash. Then, when the price of oil fell to $18 a barrel, the patch trash left and the crime rates dropped considerably. Now the patch trash is back and the crime numbers are up again. Who the hell are you to say there is no correlation, Jennifer? Patch trash yourself living in denial, no doubt. Time to start packing your gear. The price of oil is falling and pretty soon you won't have a job. Go on and git while the gitting is good. "

REALLY wrote on Dec 31, 2008 1:57 PM:

" Travis, my point with respect to scientists, is that we have a major, laughable contradiction with respect to drugs. We say on one hand, the human mind is so great and mighty, we might even be on the verge of creating life, we think. On the other, let's trash the human mind, while we also destroy our bodies and innocent lives. With respect to accountability, your very point about the 1920's supports what I said. Lawmakers should say it's wrong, because it kills innocent people needlessly, crime numbers shouldn't dictate the law. Good colleges don't lower their standards if students can't pass their classes! In the end, some people will break the law anyway, just as you said. There is only one final point of accountability, and He will set things right in the end. Also, legalizing marijuana is ridiculous. When you want good results in life, you don't lower the standards and create confusion and contradiction like that, you raise the standards and stick to it! "

REALLY wrote on Dec 31, 2008 2:16 PM:

" DAKOTA, the problem goes much deeper than just the crime, and a particular career group. For every crime that's actually prosecuted, there are many more occurrences related to alcohol that just shouldn't be going on. I know of wealthy people with great jobs who drink with some regularity, and it's really screwing up their marriages and their kids! This is just a hidden undertoe of destruction that will manifest itself later in a big way. Crime is one thing, it's not socially acceptable, but there are many other behaviors that SHOULDN'T be socially acceptable. Personally, I love people, including the "patch trash" you hate! I would love to see those people fulfilled in their work, and free from those substances that would destroy them. If you think this "not in my back yard, go somewhere else" concept is going to work, you're ridiculous. The problems of America will always trickle down to Wyoming. If you can't face it like a man and look for good solutions, then you're just as much to blame. Evil prospers when "good" men do nothing! "

could someone tell me wrote on Dec 31, 2008 4:23 PM:

" Was the person who drug another under a vehicle for a mile after being arrested once already that night working in the patch?

I suspect if they knew when they repealed the 18th the fact that alcohol would become number 3 on the list of things that cause premature death (30 years early) they may not have repealed it.

In the mean time caught DUI the vehicle should be siezed under forfiture laws which the legislature should pass. "

Oilfield Trash wrote on Dec 31, 2008 4:52 PM:

" Dakota - Quit making generalizations. More people generally means more crime. I work in the oilfield and would venture to guess that I am far more educated than you. Grow up. "

littlejohnny wrote on Dec 31, 2008 5:45 PM:

" Dakota,
If you are living in a sod house, taking your clothes down to the N Platte to wash,and heating your sod house with wood, and lighting your house by candle, and walking or riding your bike to [work?]. Then you can look down on a profession that has kept all these nice things we have in Wyoming, Plus low taxes, NO INCOME TAX and a surplus in the bank of over $ 8 Billion. Thank God for the Oil Field Trash....Yeah I'm one since "80'....Raised my daughters,paid my taxes and my house. All I can say to you is I25 heads both North and South...Need Gas? "

vic gogan wrote on Dec 31, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Stop looking for excuses, as to who these dui offenders are,but rather get real, they are a clear present danger to the people of Wyoming.Mandatory road block spot checks throughout the city and hiways and biways of Wyoming and get these potential killers off our streets before its YOUR FAMILY MEMBER that is dead or crippled for life.The per captia ratio of dui seems way to disportionate not to take some radical action.Who is to blame, the isolation,the wheather,lack of disclipine...Who cares, get them off the street,let the bleeding heart social workers deal with them once they have been ARRESTED! Preferiably before they kill someone. "

Logic wrote on Jan 1, 2009 2:13 AM:

" Blaming issues on an inanimate object =/= Personal responsiblity "

Teacher Mom wrote on Jan 1, 2009 8:59 AM:

" As a public school teacher and mom, I see at least a part of the problem of teen drinking as a culture of acceptance in our community. The parents/adults drink to excess and drive. While on one hand we say we want to do something about this, we turn our heads and have parties in our homes where adults get wasted - and our children are watching. You should hear some of the stories I hear in my classroom - students "telling on their parents". I also hear parents dismiss alcohol abuse as the "free, western" mind-set we have here - like it is a GOOD thing. Until we honestly look at ourselves, we will continue to breed a generation of alcohol-abusers. "

amazonjude wrote on Jan 1, 2009 11:22 AM:

" did you ever think that these people were unablanced to begin with and that alcohol played a small part in the crimes.
because unbalanced is unbalanced weather drunk or not they were going to hurt these people. now dont go getting on the prohabition wagon.... your after our smokes as it is , and with alcohol being billions of dollars industry... you are not going to get anyone to vote out alcohol.. not in any shape or form... your fighting a losing battle.... besides what would MADD cry about if they could not
blame ALL drunk drivers for theiir losses..
amazonjude "

Wife Of Proud Oil Field Trash wrote on Jan 1, 2009 5:25 PM:

" I fail to see what the oil feild has to do with this. My husband is a pipe welder. We live in a tiny town with two bars and that is basicly the only thing to do in our town. We don't go out and get drunk every night. We take care of our kids. We go to work every day. We are very involved in our cominity and school. My husband is just about ready to take his final test and become an EMT for the volunteer service in our town.
So maybe you should think before you type.
BTW: If it wasn't for our oilfeild and all this "trash" Wyoming's economy would be as bad as the rest of the united states. Think about that for a second. "

Jeff m wrote on Jan 1, 2009 8:29 PM:

" I guess we can finally legalize marijuana and meth and make alcohol illegal. I wonder if we can come up with a statistic that shows this increase can be pointed towards more tree hiuggers drinking due to hate for the oilfiled and depression knowing that the oilfield is going to stay along with the coal mines that feed this whole state. If it were not the oilfield this state would be broke. "

J Miller wrote on Jan 1, 2009 8:32 PM:

" dakota needs to go back to dakota where the women are women and the sheep are scared as hell.Baaaah. I work in the oilfield and have two college degrees and fix computers on drilling rigs for one of the largest oilfield companies in the world.I'm drug free and alcohol free so quit whining about oilfield you worm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Bob wrote on Jan 2, 2009 1:36 AM:

" DAKOTA I also work in the oil field. I am much to busy with my work to be drinking and driving, as many of us are. There are just as many (probably more) buisness men and wal-mart workers sitting in the bars every night as there are oil field workers. If you have lived here so long take the blinders off and see the benefits the oil and gas brings to the state not just the negatives. And remember when you point the finger there are three more pointing back at you "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 2, 2009 4:56 AM:

" Don't bet on it Patch Trash. I got more than one diploma. I stand by what I say. Anyone against that is patch trash or making money off them, so of course they think all the patch trash is a good thing.Being an enabler like that only furthers the problem. "

Bits wrote on Jan 2, 2009 9:25 AM:

" its not any particular "group" of people... what simple mindedness..

What about having something to do other then DRINK... Has anyone ever thought of following through on that.. Oh.. I know. lets build another golf course - that will work...

People go out - they get stupid, they drink, they commit crimes. Oh.. heres another thought - lock up the criminals instead of letting them out on probation...

Oh.. nevermind.. just typical Casper/Wyoming talk.. Lets all sit around and talk about the problem and not implement a solution. "

lol wrote on Jan 2, 2009 9:34 AM:

" 7 diplomas for reading see spot run is no accomplishment friar duckykota "

What is Wrong wrote on Jan 2, 2009 9:37 AM:

" I don't care what job u have u can still be a drunk. I hate that people are wanting to make drugs legal. Pot is a depressant and if u put someone behind the wheel of a car they are just as bad as someone who has been drinking. Meth is horrible anyway u look at it. People kill over this stuff. I am sorry people need to realize that any drug messes with your body and the functions of it. "

Mac wrote on Jan 2, 2009 10:26 AM:

" Well, here' my stab at it:
I believe that ACTIONS are what we should prosecute. If you hurt someone in an accident, shoot someone, stab someone, you go to jail. It matters not WHY you took that action. Had a drinnk? Had a bad day at the office? Suffer from depression? Who cares? It's the ACTION that hurts people.

Trying to ban alcohol, or drugs, or even guns under the pretense that it will solve CRIME is foolhearty. Just punish the action, the actual crime. "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 2, 2009 10:45 AM:

" The price of oil is falling again today. Got your stuff packed yet? Gonna walk out on your mortgage and leave the bank holding the bag like so many did at the end of the last boom? Oh right. That wasn't patch trash then either. Git going all you self righteous phonies. The rest of us will still be here to clean up your mess. Git! "

nativeone wrote on Jan 2, 2009 11:19 AM:

" Heck, dont blame alcohol, blame all the newcomers to the state. You people want to blame them for everything else. "

hahhah wrote on Jan 2, 2009 11:23 AM:

" poor dakota...all those degrees and still dumb as a post "

Tracie wrote on Jan 2, 2009 11:46 AM:

" My question is why on earth would people in Wyoming quit drinking when it costs the same amount for a coke at a bar for the driver as it does a beer for the drinkers...bar owners are not doing all they can do! "

What is wrong wrote on Jan 2, 2009 12:44 PM:

" Where I am from if you are the DD most bars would give you free drinks. If you r going to drink you have to have a bus ticket, DD, cab ride or call a friend. I am sorry people make to many excuses. I have picked up one to many drunks hitting trees with cars and motorcycles. Only thing crime helps is job security for the law enforcement. "

Durrrr wrote on Jan 2, 2009 1:45 PM:

" Don't blame the alcohol, blame the cognizant human beings who make the willful decision to consume alcohol irresponsibly. To blame an inanimate object for the actions of a person is ridiculous, on par with suing gunmakers for wrongful deaths when someone shoots someone else. And to blame this on outsiders is so obscenely self-righteous that it's funny. It doesn't matter where you're from, anybody can make that decision. I would even venture that Wyomingites are the problem, as underage drinking is so ingrained into our local culture. If you don't think that drinking isn't ingrained into our culture, you're out of your mind. "

WOW wrote on Jan 2, 2009 2:45 PM:

" DAKOTA, the "trash" in my community is primarily composed of people whose grandparents were born and raised here. . . and, therefore, think the rules don't apply to them. (Before you have your hissy-fit, I'm one of the "them," so I know who "we" are.) Dearest D, I am a life-long resident, graduated with honors from three Wyoming colleges. (by the way, the programs were law enforcement and law, paid for by bartending.) I was raised on a ranch; but I know plenty of "oil field trash." Some of their last names are True, Cheney. . . Your ignorant comments do nothing to help determine what to do about alcohol problems in our communities. "

Jesse wrote on Jan 2, 2009 4:37 PM:

" I think Casper and the rest of the state should look more at WHAT THERE IS TO DO!?!?!? I've been out of high school now for some years and there was never anything to do besides drive around and drink or go spotlightl some praire dogs. It's soooooo boring here if there were more activities and places to go we would see a decrease in our youth and drinking today..... "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 2, 2009 5:39 PM:

" Wow, you're the same twerp who's been lying all over these pages. Graduated with honors from 3 Wyoming colleges, yeah right. What, no University in that bunch? You're full of it. If liquor paid for your education (sure it did) then you're an enabler. I'm surprised you didn't say you got through school working in the patch. What a liar. "

are you wrote on Jan 2, 2009 8:14 PM:

" jealous that someone has education and diplomas higher than for see spot run like you friar duckykota. "

Ween wrote on Jan 2, 2009 10:43 PM:

" Dakota, where do i start. Oil patch trash?? You do know what your benz / hummer runs on right? Next time you feel you need to show off your diplomas and take a drive across town just to be seen in it, or your daily commute to the country club you might want to take a second and realize who made that drive possible. I dont care how many diplomas you have, but I do know why wyomings economy is not in the gutter nearly as bad as the rest of the US's. Its because of that patch you are so quick to criticize. I would think anyone with a touch of common sense would know that. Californias calling, better hurry up and grab yourself a good tree "while the gittins good"- "

hey ween wrote on Jan 3, 2009 4:42 PM:

" Dakota has a big enough problem trying to keep his laptop dry in the San Francisco bath house so do not confound him with hard questions. "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 3, 2009 4:49 PM:

" Bet you got that law degree at a community college. Ha ha ha, yo! Ween's brown derby, fo' real. "

Make wrote on Jan 4, 2009 3:46 AM:

" Wyoming a dry state "

What is wrong wrote on Jan 4, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Ok I personally think the bashing of each other is not serving the point. The point is what do we as a community need to do to control the problem. In NC if you r an adult and have kids drinking you can be charged with a crime. Also if u let anyone leave your house drunk or have been drinking you can be charged. I don't care if you are on welfare or millionaire drinking to the point where u can not control your body and thoughts is a crime. You can not blame it on others you have to blame yourself. I also think people who have the means and advantage to help should. It is pointless to come on here and express thoughts about one person because they have a thought. I agree it is more than one group of people in WY that contribute to the cause so yes they are wrong pointing at the oil community. "

highmarkin wrote on Jan 4, 2009 11:21 AM:

" Dakota =ROOSTER FISH. You are far the most pompous a-- posting on here. What do you do for a living Dakota?Maybe you should get out of mom and dad's basement and get a job you hack. Hopefully someone bought you a window to replace your stomach so you can navigate.You sure talk tough behind the monitor you chicken s--t liberal worm.I have been in the patch for 17 yrs. have never been in jail,home every night with my wife and daughters and pay more in taxes than you probably make in a year you TWERP.All you do is stir crap in here and never present anything but your one sided opinions and 2nd grade name calling.There are plenty of roads out of this state if you don't like the way things are here. "

Ol Boy wrote on Jan 4, 2009 5:43 PM:

" As someone who lived in Wyoming for many years and now lives in the Midwest, I have seen some of the best and worst of the Cowboy state. But about a year ago I traveled through late one night after taking my 88 year old father to visit a dying WWII buddy in Idaho. We stopped off in a McDonalds way up around midnight and some of the oil patch crowd was in there. I was ashamed of their behavior, and their stupidity. One of them was actually making fun of my old father because he thought he was slow and walked funny. I will say for the record though that he was sober enough to understand when I told him to turn around and walk out or be prepared to visit the local hospital. He did, and that prevented another alcohol related crime, because I was prepared to kill that SOB. "

hmmm wrote on Jan 5, 2009 12:00 AM:

" there is absolutely no basis for Dakota's assertions in regards to the crime rates in relation to the oil/gas industry. My basis for this is the FBI Uniform Crime Reports for Wyoming from 1960 through 2007. We of course do not want to confuse the real facts with Dakotas delusions.

It also does not further his/her/its arguments when the posts contain words like fo = for, dis = disrespect, yo whatever that means, and other vernacular utilized by the spiked pink hair skater/gangster want to be crowd walking around with sagging jeans so all can see their dirty undergarments. Perhaps mommy stopped breast feeding too early last year and it affected its ability to do actual research before attempting to impart obvious lack of knowledge. "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 5, 2009 6:07 AM:

" Hey highmarkin, You sure that was the 17 years you spent working at JHMR? Buzz off liar. 17 years ago there wasn't much of a patch here in Wyoming. "

Brian Johnson wrote on Jan 5, 2009 9:12 AM:

" It's time for Wyoming to follow Utah in dealing with this. When a driver is pulled over on suspicion of DUI, he is arrested, loses his license for 12 hours or longer of he/she is still impaired, and the vehicle is impounded. The driver must pay towing and impound charges pluss a $333 fine to the state. This is all MANDATED. When the impaired drivers actually have to pay for their poor choices, maybe it will change the high DUI occurrences. My info is verified. My brother-in-law operates a tow business near Orem. He is real busy with this stuff. "

Wow wrote on Jan 5, 2009 9:58 AM:

" Ol Boy, do you think someone from wyoming lacks to capacity to behave that way? In fact, some of the rudest, most mean-spirited people I've met have been from beloved Mother Wyoming. I was born and raised here, and I've seen what this state has to offer. Blind racism? Check. Overt sexism? Check. General discrimination? Check. I've met big city types that were much more honorable and respectful than some of our precious Wyomingites. Guess what? An a-hole can be born anywhere! "

KYL wrote on Jan 5, 2009 10:53 AM:

" Yes, yes...the demon drink!

How many people enjoy a drink or two and never get into any trouble or hurt anyone?

That number will never be measured by anyone as it cannot be determined.

Group punishment is no answer. Meaning that no new laws or bans should even be considered.

How about this, we punish the offenders with GREAT severity on the first instance that they commit a crime involving booze? Say maybe a $20K fine, one year of public service time, and 90 days in jail non-negotiable, no early out or time off for good behavior.

This would serve two social goals:

1) Discouragement of that person from ever offending again.

2) Discouragement of all others from offending in the first place. "

Exactly wrote on Jan 5, 2009 11:48 AM:

" It's always alcohol that causes all the problems, yet it is the legal and socially acceptable drug. When will we learn? We must crack down way harder on alcohol related crimes, as noone seems to be learning a lessong. "

black gold wrote on Jan 5, 2009 12:33 PM:

" Dakota you talk big on a computer how are you in person "

Perhaps wrote on Jan 5, 2009 1:16 PM:

" That would be workable KYL but if it did not then the other should be done no exceptions.

I would make a change or so to your idea. 1st offence permanent loss of licence untill the offender could prove they were competent to drive again. Like when someone looses their privledge to drive because of an illness to wich the medications makes it unsafe for them to oporate a vehicle.

If a child is hurt by anyone on alcohol dui accident or abuse the offender needs at least 5 to 10 to cool their heals and think about what they did recieving mandentory therapy the whole time.

If caught DUI then the vehicle is automatically forfited and sold at police auction to assist in paying for the offenders cost to society.

The best would be the German system look it up see what you think. they very seldom have second offences. "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 5, 2009 3:58 PM:

" Don't worry about it twerp. Plumbing you up wouldn't be no job. Lots of guys like you working the patch, acting all hard in the bars. Nah, you wouldn't be no job. "

Weldon wrote on Jan 5, 2009 4:55 PM:

" Exactly, Alcohol is not the problem, ever. People are the problem. More specifically people that have a problem to start with. Millions of Americans enjoy drinking and do so responsibly every day. Stiffer punishments are the answer. "

highmarkin wrote on Jan 5, 2009 5:16 PM:

" My point has been made there you hack wanna be from Wyoming C-bone.There has always been some level of "patch" work in this state Mrs.Dakota. Just shows that you are not of this state as you so suggest.You coudn't plumb up a toilet let alone some patch worker.Your just like a fart,(bunch of hot gas)except the fact someone can appreciate a good fart.Go do your homework before mommy calls you for supper. "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 5, 2009 6:07 PM:

" Still making all the sense in the world, right along with your trailer trash sense of humor. You wouldn't be no job either. You never did tell us if it was your 17 years at JHMR or the patch you're talking about. You ought to check the Baker Hughes rig count for 1991 before you go claiming you've been in the patch for 17 years, big man. Yeah, there has been some patch work going on in Wyoming over the years, but you wasn't doing it. Why you gotta lie like that? You got some kind of inferiority complex? "

Ol Boy wrote on Jan 5, 2009 9:43 PM:

" WOW. I agree with you in theory, but these particular holes were driving a rig with Texas tags. I know, 'cause I watched to make sure they left.

From my experience in WY in the 70's and 80's there are some very good people there and some hat racks; like everywhere else. And to tell the truth, some of the best I met were born someplace else. Some of them moved to Wyoming for the love of the land, and those that stayed logn enough to take root are mostly solid and dependable people. Those that come for a fast buck and no plans to do anything but get thye money and get out; not so much. "

Perfo wrote on Jan 6, 2009 6:09 AM:

" Dakota, maybe you should look a little further back than 1991. There's been oilfield in Wyoming way back. And lots of it. I got in it in 1974 when it was really busy and have been "patch trash" ever since. Never been with out a job the whole time, raised 2 kids (who are now "trona trash"). Mineral and hydrocarbon have always been a huge part of Wyoming's legacy and will continue to play a huge role in future business for the state. "

JJ2C wrote on Jan 6, 2009 8:45 AM:

" I do not know that any drugs should be illegal.

We'd save a ton of money if we did legalize most of them, taxed them and regulated them as we now do alcohol.

This would kill off a lot of crime too, and bring money into the public coffers instead of draining it out of them.

Bans and over regulation always lead to one thing, and that is more crime. "

ok wrote on Jan 6, 2009 10:45 AM:

" Millions of Americans enjoy smoking pot and do so responsibly every day and don't cause any problems for the rest of society at all, yet it's illegal. Imagine how much we could cut down on crime, ease overcrowding of correctional facilities and courts, and how much tax revenue, jobs, and business revenues could be generated if we were to legalize marijuana. I have not seen many problems caused by people smoking pot; I have seen problem after problem day after day from people drinking alcohol. I say legalize pot and crack down on alcohol. "

REALLY wrote on Jan 6, 2009 11:17 AM:

" Well, as I said near the beginning of this thread, we're not really interested in solving the problem, and we underestimate its depth. Some are sidetracked on non-natives, which is completely ridiculous and doesn't face the problem. Some say let's legalize more addictive substances, throwing off all restraint and principles, so we can have more taxes...that's a great idea...let's openly help people trash their lives and the lives of otheres, as long as we make money doing it! STUPID! Some say, don't try to stop alcohol production or consumption, because it's part of our culture, and crime will just increase anyway. Well, of course, any time you add a law, crime is going to increase at least initially. You don't measure success that way, otherwise let's just abolish all laws! Still there's the contradiction...if all other drugs...and that's what alcohol is...are illegal, why should alcohol get a pass!? It shouldn't! As for me, I'm glad I never saw alcohol as an essential. I will continue to live without it...my mind and body will never be available to that destroyer! "

Your Choice wrote on Jan 6, 2009 4:44 PM:

" REALLY, I realize that this is your chosen hill to die on, so be it. I also realize that you seek, no, need to control others so that the world will work as your demand it to do so. OK, now back to the reality of life...people in a free country have choices. Some good and some bad, but that is the right and the responsibility of each free citizen (rights cannot be had if there are no responsibilities attendant to them). Rights and responsibilities also come with consequences, both negative and positive. We, society, that makes the rules have got to have the stomach to make strong rules (punishment) and then fully, fairly and equally enforce them. Personally I see no reason not to legalize most now illegal drugs so long as their quality, sales and consumption are regulated for safety and then heavily taxed as are smokes and booze. "

Alvin wrote on Jan 6, 2009 5:02 PM:

" REALLY, Generally the first person to call another stupid in any discussion has just lost the argument. We discuss issues by presenting facts arraigned in such a fashion so as to support what we believe to be correct. These are then countered by the opposing side of the equation in an equally civil and reasonable fashion. Statements offered by any one party are not facts. Thus your ideas unsupported by facts and logic will not be accepted by anyone else as truth alone. We taught our children that before they left home for preschool and now I have taught you. I hope that you benefit from that brief little life's lesson and can now move on in a more adult mode of operation. "

Martha S wrote on Jan 6, 2009 5:13 PM:

" REALLY, Walleye is on the menu this evening, and my husband and I will both be enjoying a nice chardonnay with it. Enjoy your kool-aide or chi tea. To each her/his own. When you can regulate what is on my dinner table, I will be looking to do the same to yours comrade! "

Rawhide wrote on Jan 6, 2009 5:18 PM:

" This is the west. Some of it is still wild and free.

If you demand to live somewhere that others, like John Law, deliver unto you the safety and security which you demand, then move back to Philadelphia and enjoy your urban life style.

People work hard and play hard here. Life is tough just like our weather. Adapt or leave.

I'd just as soon that you leave personnally. "

highmarkin wrote on Jan 6, 2009 9:22 PM:

" You think drilling rigs are the only part of the patch Dakota?You must have a foot fetish because every time you comment your putting your foot in your huge mouth. "

DDean wrote on Jan 6, 2009 11:56 PM:

" I don't usually post many comments here on Trib, but I just can not stand it anymore...

Dakota has once again shown everyone that he/she/it is the most educated one leaving comments and an expert on all of these blogs. He/she/it must be a lawyer, doctor, genius or thinks that way and thinks he/she/it knows all about the legal system and anything else that pertains to laws or anything.

But what can truly be noted is that Dakota ALWAYS has a negative opinion on everything that he/she/it posts. Is ALWAYS right, is NEVER wrong. ALWAYS seems to be looking for a fight online. Can NEVER back up what he/she/it is talking about and ALWAYS avoids answering questions when they are directed at he/she/it to support what he/she/it is commenting on. ALWAYS becomes Very defensive when proven incorrect on something that he/she/it posts.(i.e. Lift tickets at Teton Village AREN'T $81. THEY'RE $87!) DOES know how to use a computer and look up information available on a Internet search (i.e. Lift tickets at Teton Village AREN'T $81. THEY'RE $87) and no matter what, who your are or your knowledge about the topic you are ALWAYS "nothing more than an agitator and a liar", "oil patch trash" or just "a liar” of some type.

But I must say that some things are for sure, this is a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and freedom to say that opinion. Dakota is exercising that right, may it be that he/she/it is right or wrong, Dakota has that right, just like the rest of us.

And probably one thing that is FOR SURE and that I can take to the bank is that I NOW HAVE A TARGET PAINTED ON MY CHEST for Dakota to take shots at and he/she/it probably will. "

DDean wrote on Jan 7, 2009 12:45 AM:

" Dakota before you get to hot under the collar about my comments just remember that it is MY OPINION and I attempted to explain that to you. But I will just have to wait to see, if that is allowed or your thoughts... "

Veronica wrote on Jan 7, 2009 8:21 AM:

" I guess that we all need to face the fact that America no longer has the courage to fully and properly punish anyone for anything. We rationalize and justify away their crimes and try to paint the criminals as all being victims of bad childhoods, etc. So instead we now try to implement "bans" and just punish everyone else for the bad deeds of a few. How sick is that? "

DAKOTA wrote on Jan 7, 2009 9:49 AM:

" Yup, that sure is true highmarkin. Guess someone has to clean the port-a-lets out on location. I seriously doubt you're qualified for anything else, save simple labor. "

Well wrote on Jan 7, 2009 10:24 AM:

" If they would employ the sanctions used for instance in Singapore perhaps it would cease. Nothing better than a good caning to put a stop to misbehavior. This would be appropriate for instances of non fatality DUI, public intox fighting, beating wife, beating child (triple the measure of caning).

For dui fatality a quick trial followed by an imediate long drop from horse back with a short rope.

You have absolutely no right to drink and endanger anyone else driving after becoming soused. You have absolutly no right to break any law, beat any adult, abuse any child using your drunken stupidity as an excuse.

Want to work hard and play hard well it comes with consequences and it is time this state applied something other than a pass with a slap on the wrist. "

88R wrote on Jan 7, 2009 10:51 AM:

" It always comes back to one subject; social control. Way is it that there is a core group of nuts that think that they should be able to dictate the actions of other people as they see fit? If we ban any thing at all, we should ban bans and the would be banners. "

HEH wrote on Jan 7, 2009 11:01 AM:

" Well, I am with you and I'd vote for that! HANG EM HIGH! "

Steve Laws wrote on Jan 7, 2009 11:10 AM:

" Yup, oilfield & economic conditions fuel the crime scene but it is just as bad when the economy is down. I ahve been oilfield trash for 40 years & had my share of mishaps but figured it out that I could not drink alcohol so stopped through a 12 step program. We need to offer more to the users & hang the repeat offenders for alcohol & drug related cases. Help is there if you want it! "

Move wrote on Jan 7, 2009 11:20 AM:

" Perhaps all of the various banners would be happier in California or Vermont? "

Exactly wrote on Jan 7, 2009 11:51 AM:

" I'm with you 88R; let's ban idiotic activists that are always trying to ban everything. It's a free country! "

REALLY wrote on Jan 7, 2009 2:50 PM:

" Your Choice, Alvin & Martha, I have NO NEED whatsoever to CONTROL anyone, and if you knew me you'd see that clearly. If my recommendations seem too rigid, it's because I'm trying SAVE people...both the innocent and the addicted! I've railed on the contradiction between other drugs and alcohol, and I haven't seen anyone argue LOGICALLY with that. In fact, alcohol may be worse than MJ. YC, rights and responsibilities are great, but sacrificial, agape love, is greater..."I will lay down my life, relinquish certain things I feel I have a right to, sacrificially, to help or save someone else." How much would you give of your time or behavior to keep an addict clean? Alvin, thanks for your wonderful, scholarly guidance on how we all are to debate one another. I can see that you really need bigger, politically correct words to feel a sense of harmony. Let me restate my point, if you are willing to sacrifice people unto addiction, along with the innocent who are damaged and destroyed, because you value public improvement, possessions, perks, or money more, you are...illogical, unreasonable, irrational, fallacious, absurd, invalid, meaningless, unsound, misled, error-prone, false...unwise. Statements from one party are indeed facts, if and only if, that party is sovereign, holy, all-powerful, and perfectly loving. Let God be true and every man a liar. Alvin, I'm sure that your children will be, or are, wonderful little scientists...I hope that you also taught them rock-solid principles that don't pragmatically change because some data changed, or because the majority decides something is true...I hope they have a moral compass. Martha, you totally didn't catch where I'm coming from! My recommendation is this...no one reaches a buzz, much less getting drunk, with alcohol. Production should be reduced to a trickle. But your chardonnay is no big deal. In the past, I've had a single drink of wine myself at dinner. The point is that lives around us get really screwed up when people lose their minds! If we're not resolved to such a stand, then indeed, let's legalize all drugs, be consistent rather than two-faced, go the whole way, either be bold and true, or turn our backs on humanity and just enjoy the destruction! Why is this so hard for people to grasp what I'm asserting? "

Sandra Lee wrote on Jan 7, 2009 3:23 PM:

" REALLY, Who elected you to save anyone? You, by your own admission are a meddler. No one likes a meddler. Sure use some euphemism like public organizer, or social activist. That phony label doesn't change what you are. Live your life and I will live mine however this American chooses to do so. "

My Choice Not Your Choice wrote on Jan 7, 2009 3:33 PM:

" REALLY, Your singular fixation tells me that you have some deep seated problems of your own, one of which is being a control freak. Who ever told you that you were all that important and should be all that powerful over all of the rest of us? Learn you place and accept that with humility, you are no better or wiser than anyone else. We are all equals in a democracy, even you. "

Fiercely Independent wrote on Jan 7, 2009 4:35 PM:

" REALLY - I think the reason people are not supporting your thought process is because you are suggesting that your righteous morality should be imposed upon others which boils down to social control; especially if others don't agree with you.

Regarding the contradiction between other drugs and alcohol - there is only one logical way to resolve this and even you suggested it - "let's legalize all drugs, be consistent rather than two-faced". The problem with the stupid war on drugs is that all people indeed are not "resolved to such a stand" and rather it is a controlling group of righteous moral do-gooders that decide they know better and impose this - thus it is a failure. It would make more sense to ditch the social control approach and instead use accountability and treatment as the methods to deal with irresponsible users. And yes amongst many other positive outcomes this would then create a tax based revenue stream instead of another example of government waste that is the current policy. "

Redbook wrote on Jan 7, 2009 5:07 PM:

" REALLY, By my read Ms./Mr. ban happy you are now also in the business of picking and choosing which form of alcohol is OK and which is not as you allow Martha's wine, but not other substances. When did you become God? Get over yourself already. "

What is wrong wrote on Jan 7, 2009 5:48 PM:

" I have just a few questions
1) How would u feel if someone KILLED your loved one bc they were drunk?

2) What would u do to this person?

I think with crime should come punishment of some kind. I worked one too many accident scenes where a drunk hit a car and that person he/she hit is dead. What does it take someone close to u being beat up left for dead or being hit by a car to have some of u wake up. I am sorry some things are just not worth arguing about. To me this is worth more time than what someone does for a living. Until u lose a loved one or watch a 5 yr old die bc of a drunk u really need to keep stupid comments to yourself. It does not matter if u work the fields or in an office building jail colors are all the same. "

Not Worth It wrote on Jan 7, 2009 9:01 PM:

" This isn't even worth getting into. Folks, alcohol is not going away, that is a historical fact. Individuals need to learn to control themselves, if they can't, well, that's why there is a justice system, they get punished. If little johnny gets ran over by a drunk driver then it's one less idiot we have to blog about how the goverment should control our daily lives, he shouldn't be playing in traffic. If Henry get's arrested twice in one night for drunk driving then it's the fault of the Casper PD or lack there of doing their part to help keep the streets safe. Is this article any news, no, people get drunk and do stupid things. Look at the stupidity that has plagued this forum already, and I bet half of you weren't even drunk, kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it? "

Loni wrote on Jan 8, 2009 3:48 PM:

" What is wrong, Please learn to communicate in English. "

Hmmmm wrote on Jan 8, 2009 8:39 PM:

" A person arrested for DUI has the right to bail according to the law. If that person makes bail and is dropped off at or otherwise makes it back to the bar did not get there because of law enforcement. Anyone who can find a way to blame law enforcement for this ate paint chips and were dropped on their head too many times as a child. "

hmmmm wrote on Jan 9, 2009 5:01 AM:

" Loni spoken like a spelling/english Nazi lush. It does not appear as though the post by "Not Worth It" was written in Russian or Chinese as you or any good communist would prefer. "

What is wrong wrote on Jan 9, 2009 10:51 AM:

" Loni, I know how to communicate in English. I also have a college education. If that is the only thing u can find wrong, you do not need to post. So back off. I had a sister killed by a drunk driver and I was a paramedic that had to tell a parent their child was killed by a drunk. Until you have that on your mind DO NOT speak or type.

Also DO NOT blame Law Enforcement. They catch them and put them in jail, blame the courts and the system that allows them to be bailed out. "

Amazing wrote on Jan 9, 2009 12:45 PM:

" It is always the substance or object that is to blame and it is never the jerk abusing it. You people are all really ready to become Obama socialists and march in lock step with the rest of the know-it-all do-gooders right into the concentration camps. The only intelligent post here was Loni's and for her simple insight/request some _ss hole needed to express their ignorance and frustration by calling her a name. Can you people become any more shallow and ignorant? I doubt it possible. "

Loni wrote on Jan 9, 2009 1:13 PM:

" What is wrong, It must have been an online degree printed out on an ink-jet and signed with an X. I say this as your thin logic is nearly as poor as your ability to convey it. Have a few drinks and take a drive to calm down before you injure yourself or others... I really cannot wait for your next illuminating post so that we can all learn more about your unfortunate and tormented life! "

What is Wrong wrote on Jan 9, 2009 3:25 PM:

" Loni before you start insulting someone look in the mirror.You are a jerk. I am sorry for your family and friends if you have any. My degree was hard earned by working my way through college. I do not DRINK at all. I am calm and a reasonable person. But for you to jump on me for no reason is just proving to me that you are ignorant to anything that happens in your town. Another thing my life was great and for you to think otherwise is just someone who thrives off of others. Grow up! I was making a point. God help you if you need someone to help you one day. You never know it might be me saving your worthless life. Now why don't you go have a drink and stay inside your house so others are not bothered by you.

I do not blame alcohol at all for problems of society. I blame the stupid people who do not know their limit. "

Wow wrote on Jan 9, 2009 4:08 PM:

" Here's how we do this. Wyomingites love their guns; Pass legislation so even one DUI and you forfeit your 2nd amendment right to bear arms. You can drive drunk or have your precious guns, your choice. "

REALLY wrote on Jan 9, 2009 5:33 PM:

" Sandra, I'm not sure where you saw me as a self-proclaimed meddler, and I'm no activist at all...I've never done any more politically than vote. If I could say I was elected to save anyone, then God cast the one and only vote in that election. He gave me an awesome, set-free life, and I'm elected to join in extending mercy and healing to those who want it. My Choice, you totally missed it. I don't have or want any control over anyone, I never stated a thing about my power, I never said I was wiser than anyone. I'm simply presenting basic, logical points. 1)People's lives, both the length and quality of it, are more important than money, convenience or escape. 2) It's two-faced contradiction to allow alcohol when other drugs are not allowed. 3) The mind is a terrible thing to waste. I ask again, why are these points SO controversial. "

Uhm HELLO wrote on Jan 9, 2009 8:35 PM:

" "REALLY" Uhm actually the VETERANS and all the TROOPS gave you your freedom. Hum?
And "DAKOTA why don' t ya go back to JH or JHMR and enjoy all your YUPPY friends, get a clue... IDIOT!!!! "

Susan wrote on Jun 4, 2009 1:35 AM:

" Well, I can see the alcohol consumption culture continues strong in Wyoming, 20+ years after I left following HS graduation. Teacher Mom is right on, in my opinion. Underage drinkers become adult drinkers who raise drinkers. By "drinker" I mean a person who drinks to the point of impaired judgment. I'm not talking a beer or wine with dinner. The comments I've read while following a drunk driving case lead me to believe Wyoming drinkers are not ready to voluntarily moderate extremely high levels of consumption for the greater good of public safety and health. That's not an endorsement of prohibition--more an observation about selfishness and lack of responsibility. KYL's suggestions are fabulous--first time offender leniency has not been successful at deterring additional crime. I miss Wyoming and would love to return someday to live there, but the dependence on alcohol for a good time will keep me away while I raise my children. I wish you the best as you solve this serious problem. "

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